The future for regionals under ALPA
03-19-2011 | 11:15 AM
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The future for regionals under ALPA
Midwest flight attendants just won a huge victory with the support of AFA. Congrats on a hard fought victory!
But what happened to the Midwest pilots? They ended up with Brian Bedford because of ALPA. And now FAPA is working with ALPA to get their hooks in again. As well as into some painfully thin wallets.
Anyone who wants to get a vision of the future of regionals under Lee Moak need look no further that what he did when he was at the table negotiating LOA19. Remember at the time, DAL owned 48% of Midwest Airlines. They (ALPA & Moak) told the Midwest MEC that the plans were for Midwest operations to be, "business as usual." Yet in LOA 19 over at DAL, they had 3 pages discussing the code share relationship between DAL and Alaska, but nothing about Midwest. An airline that DAL had a 48% ownership stake in.
Thousands of employees jobs lost, careers gone and families destroyed and what did ALPA do? Make excuses, hire pilot hating egomaniac like Bruce York to try and keep them out of legal hell and all the while, putting out bogus communication video's like "WE are ALPA" to take the focus away from what was really going on.
Sheer ineptness by some, calculating destruction of human dignity by others and knowingly trading political favors in exchange for personal gains at the expense of others became the personal mantra of Prater and Moak. Any semblance of a “union” left ALPA in October of 2006. Duane Woerth attempted to change the attitude over there in his "One Union" campaign that began in 2000, but the Executive Council, along with a couple of the legacy MEC's who could not stomach the thought of “little guys” having a voice or a real seat at the table, made sure it never had a real chance for any success.
It’s not just Midwest they did this to, but many others like TWA, PanAM, ATA and Emery, to name a few.
In this business it’s understandable how some airlines can unfortunately go by the wayside and Midwest might just have been one of them. But to see your own Union, whom so many paid out so much in dues to over the years, assist in that demise? That’s one that no ALPA supporter can yet explain with a straight face. Moak said that Midwest Pilots would never become DAL pilots, made sure of it in NWA/DAL merger negotiations, Prater went along for political purposes, he needed to keep DAL happy. Why do you think he got a DAL ExAdmin when Helling became VP of Finance?
The Midwest pilots supported Duane Woerth in the 2006 elections. And just like every carrier who did not support Prater, Midwest paid the heavy price for not supporting an egomaniac who took everything personally and saw the job as his stepping stone into a nice DC job after he served his two terms.
In October of 2008, Moak pulled his SPC Committee from supporting the Midwest pilots when they were picketing our company. He called the MEC and told them he was “appalled at their actions” and told them that, "We (DAL MEC) don't treat our management down here like that." Of course they don’t. Lee has been bought and paid for by former DAL management lobbyists who have him do their bidding. His next career has already been assured and his pockets are well lined for when he leaves ALPA.
Lee called Tony Freitas months later, whining about the "rumors" he heard. He said there were people up at Midwest who thought he had something to do with Midwest's demise. He ASKED if any of the furloughed Pilots at Midwest might be interested in DAL interviews, and told Freitas he'd be in touch once they start hiring. To this day, that phone call has never happened. Even today, as FAPA and Moak are having their love fest, has Tony been asked to participate in the discussions? No.
You have to wonder how FAPA's Captain Thomas feels about DAL flying right on top of all their flights out of MKE and MKC? When UAL/CAL eventually wakes up and realizes their problem is not with their management, but with ALPA, you have to wonder how he and FAPA will feel when UAL/CAL teams up with SWA in DEN to take them on. I'm sure Moak and the ALPA Executive Council will rush to their rescue.
Remember when Prater went to MSP? And he said he would “change his zip code?” When he met with the leadership and was asked for help, Prater very calmly said, “If I help Midwest, I will have to help Champion, Mesaba, and Compass."
Why in the hell should he help out a “little guy” like Midway...... who had 100% membership and ran its budget in the "black," for their entire history at ALPA?
In December 2007, NWA MEC chair Dave Stevens was struggling with a decision. Should they deal with the "little guy," Midwest first, and then deal with the "big one, DAL next, or go with what Moak wanted and deal straight with him. We all now know the end of the story. By February 2008, the communications between Midwest leadership and NWA MEC Chairman Stevens were done. He refused to return calls.
Later on after the demise was over, Stevens Executive Administrator told Jay Schnedorf that; "Dave felt he let the Midwest guys down". Well Dave, you DID let them down.
If you look around, it's already started..."We are ALPA! Want a sticker? How about a lanyard?"
But what happened to the Midwest pilots? They ended up with Brian Bedford because of ALPA. And now FAPA is working with ALPA to get their hooks in again. As well as into some painfully thin wallets.
Anyone who wants to get a vision of the future of regionals under Lee Moak need look no further that what he did when he was at the table negotiating LOA19. Remember at the time, DAL owned 48% of Midwest Airlines. They (ALPA & Moak) told the Midwest MEC that the plans were for Midwest operations to be, "business as usual." Yet in LOA 19 over at DAL, they had 3 pages discussing the code share relationship between DAL and Alaska, but nothing about Midwest. An airline that DAL had a 48% ownership stake in.
Thousands of employees jobs lost, careers gone and families destroyed and what did ALPA do? Make excuses, hire pilot hating egomaniac like Bruce York to try and keep them out of legal hell and all the while, putting out bogus communication video's like "WE are ALPA" to take the focus away from what was really going on.
Sheer ineptness by some, calculating destruction of human dignity by others and knowingly trading political favors in exchange for personal gains at the expense of others became the personal mantra of Prater and Moak. Any semblance of a “union” left ALPA in October of 2006. Duane Woerth attempted to change the attitude over there in his "One Union" campaign that began in 2000, but the Executive Council, along with a couple of the legacy MEC's who could not stomach the thought of “little guys” having a voice or a real seat at the table, made sure it never had a real chance for any success.
It’s not just Midwest they did this to, but many others like TWA, PanAM, ATA and Emery, to name a few.
In this business it’s understandable how some airlines can unfortunately go by the wayside and Midwest might just have been one of them. But to see your own Union, whom so many paid out so much in dues to over the years, assist in that demise? That’s one that no ALPA supporter can yet explain with a straight face. Moak said that Midwest Pilots would never become DAL pilots, made sure of it in NWA/DAL merger negotiations, Prater went along for political purposes, he needed to keep DAL happy. Why do you think he got a DAL ExAdmin when Helling became VP of Finance?
The Midwest pilots supported Duane Woerth in the 2006 elections. And just like every carrier who did not support Prater, Midwest paid the heavy price for not supporting an egomaniac who took everything personally and saw the job as his stepping stone into a nice DC job after he served his two terms.
In October of 2008, Moak pulled his SPC Committee from supporting the Midwest pilots when they were picketing our company. He called the MEC and told them he was “appalled at their actions” and told them that, "We (DAL MEC) don't treat our management down here like that." Of course they don’t. Lee has been bought and paid for by former DAL management lobbyists who have him do their bidding. His next career has already been assured and his pockets are well lined for when he leaves ALPA.
Lee called Tony Freitas months later, whining about the "rumors" he heard. He said there were people up at Midwest who thought he had something to do with Midwest's demise. He ASKED if any of the furloughed Pilots at Midwest might be interested in DAL interviews, and told Freitas he'd be in touch once they start hiring. To this day, that phone call has never happened. Even today, as FAPA and Moak are having their love fest, has Tony been asked to participate in the discussions? No.
You have to wonder how FAPA's Captain Thomas feels about DAL flying right on top of all their flights out of MKE and MKC? When UAL/CAL eventually wakes up and realizes their problem is not with their management, but with ALPA, you have to wonder how he and FAPA will feel when UAL/CAL teams up with SWA in DEN to take them on. I'm sure Moak and the ALPA Executive Council will rush to their rescue.
Remember when Prater went to MSP? And he said he would “change his zip code?” When he met with the leadership and was asked for help, Prater very calmly said, “If I help Midwest, I will have to help Champion, Mesaba, and Compass."
Why in the hell should he help out a “little guy” like Midway...... who had 100% membership and ran its budget in the "black," for their entire history at ALPA?
In December 2007, NWA MEC chair Dave Stevens was struggling with a decision. Should they deal with the "little guy," Midwest first, and then deal with the "big one, DAL next, or go with what Moak wanted and deal straight with him. We all now know the end of the story. By February 2008, the communications between Midwest leadership and NWA MEC Chairman Stevens were done. He refused to return calls.
Later on after the demise was over, Stevens Executive Administrator told Jay Schnedorf that; "Dave felt he let the Midwest guys down". Well Dave, you DID let them down.
If you look around, it's already started..."We are ALPA! Want a sticker? How about a lanyard?"
03-20-2011 | 06:25 PM
#2
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Midwest flight attendants just won a huge victory with the support of AFA. Congrats on a hard fought victory!
But what happened to the Midwest pilots? They ended up with Brian Bedford because of ALPA. And now FAPA is working with ALPA to get their hooks in again. As well as into some painfully thin wallets.
Anyone who wants to get a vision of the future of regionals under Lee Moak need look no further that what he did when he was at the table negotiating LOA19. Remember at the time, DAL owned 48% of Midwest Airlines. They (ALPA & Moak) told the Midwest MEC that the plans were for Midwest operations to be, "business as usual." Yet in LOA 19 over at DAL, they had 3 pages discussing the code share relationship between DAL and Alaska, but nothing about Midwest. An airline that DAL had a 48% ownership stake in.
Thousands of employees jobs lost, careers gone and families destroyed and what did ALPA do? Make excuses, hire pilot hating egomaniac like Bruce York to try and keep them out of legal hell and all the while, putting out bogus communication video's like "WE are ALPA" to take the focus away from what was really going on.
Sheer ineptness by some, calculating destruction of human dignity by others and knowingly trading political favors in exchange for personal gains at the expense of others became the personal mantra of Prater and Moak. Any semblance of a “union” left ALPA in October of 2006. Duane Woerth attempted to change the attitude over there in his "One Union" campaign that began in 2000, but the Executive Council, along with a couple of the legacy MEC's who could not stomach the thought of “little guys” having a voice or a real seat at the table, made sure it never had a real chance for any success.
It’s not just Midwest they did this to, but many others like TWA, PanAM, ATA and Emery, to name a few.
In this business it’s understandable how some airlines can unfortunately go by the wayside and Midwest might just have been one of them. But to see your own Union, whom so many paid out so much in dues to over the years, assist in that demise? That’s one that no ALPA supporter can yet explain with a straight face. Moak said that Midwest Pilots would never become DAL pilots, made sure of it in NWA/DAL merger negotiations, Prater went along for political purposes, he needed to keep DAL happy. Why do you think he got a DAL ExAdmin when Helling became VP of Finance?
The Midwest pilots supported Duane Woerth in the 2006 elections. And just like every carrier who did not support Prater, Midwest paid the heavy price for not supporting an egomaniac who took everything personally and saw the job as his stepping stone into a nice DC job after he served his two terms.
In October of 2008, Moak pulled his SPC Committee from supporting the Midwest pilots when they were picketing our company. He called the MEC and told them he was “appalled at their actions” and told them that, "We (DAL MEC) don't treat our management down here like that." Of course they don’t. Lee has been bought and paid for by former DAL management lobbyists who have him do their bidding. His next career has already been assured and his pockets are well lined for when he leaves ALPA.
Lee called Tony Freitas months later, whining about the "rumors" he heard. He said there were people up at Midwest who thought he had something to do with Midwest's demise. He ASKED if any of the furloughed Pilots at Midwest might be interested in DAL interviews, and told Freitas he'd be in touch once they start hiring. To this day, that phone call has never happened. Even today, as FAPA and Moak are having their love fest, has Tony been asked to participate in the discussions? No.
You have to wonder how FAPA's Captain Thomas feels about DAL flying right on top of all their flights out of MKE and MKC? When UAL/CAL eventually wakes up and realizes their problem is not with their management, but with ALPA, you have to wonder how he and FAPA will feel when UAL/CAL teams up with SWA in DEN to take them on. I'm sure Moak and the ALPA Executive Council will rush to their rescue.
Remember when Prater went to MSP? And he said he would “change his zip code?” When he met with the leadership and was asked for help, Prater very calmly said, “If I help Midwest, I will have to help Champion, Mesaba, and Compass."
Why in the hell should he help out a “little guy” like Midway...... who had 100% membership and ran its budget in the "black," for their entire history at ALPA?
In December 2007, NWA MEC chair Dave Stevens was struggling with a decision. Should they deal with the "little guy," Midwest first, and then deal with the "big one, DAL next, or go with what Moak wanted and deal straight with him. We all now know the end of the story. By February 2008, the communications between Midwest leadership and NWA MEC Chairman Stevens were done. He refused to return calls.
Later on after the demise was over, Stevens Executive Administrator told Jay Schnedorf that; "Dave felt he let the Midwest guys down". Well Dave, you DID let them down.
If you look around, it's already started..."We are ALPA! Want a sticker? How about a lanyard?"
But what happened to the Midwest pilots? They ended up with Brian Bedford because of ALPA. And now FAPA is working with ALPA to get their hooks in again. As well as into some painfully thin wallets.
Anyone who wants to get a vision of the future of regionals under Lee Moak need look no further that what he did when he was at the table negotiating LOA19. Remember at the time, DAL owned 48% of Midwest Airlines. They (ALPA & Moak) told the Midwest MEC that the plans were for Midwest operations to be, "business as usual." Yet in LOA 19 over at DAL, they had 3 pages discussing the code share relationship between DAL and Alaska, but nothing about Midwest. An airline that DAL had a 48% ownership stake in.
Thousands of employees jobs lost, careers gone and families destroyed and what did ALPA do? Make excuses, hire pilot hating egomaniac like Bruce York to try and keep them out of legal hell and all the while, putting out bogus communication video's like "WE are ALPA" to take the focus away from what was really going on.
Sheer ineptness by some, calculating destruction of human dignity by others and knowingly trading political favors in exchange for personal gains at the expense of others became the personal mantra of Prater and Moak. Any semblance of a “union” left ALPA in October of 2006. Duane Woerth attempted to change the attitude over there in his "One Union" campaign that began in 2000, but the Executive Council, along with a couple of the legacy MEC's who could not stomach the thought of “little guys” having a voice or a real seat at the table, made sure it never had a real chance for any success.
It’s not just Midwest they did this to, but many others like TWA, PanAM, ATA and Emery, to name a few.
In this business it’s understandable how some airlines can unfortunately go by the wayside and Midwest might just have been one of them. But to see your own Union, whom so many paid out so much in dues to over the years, assist in that demise? That’s one that no ALPA supporter can yet explain with a straight face. Moak said that Midwest Pilots would never become DAL pilots, made sure of it in NWA/DAL merger negotiations, Prater went along for political purposes, he needed to keep DAL happy. Why do you think he got a DAL ExAdmin when Helling became VP of Finance?
The Midwest pilots supported Duane Woerth in the 2006 elections. And just like every carrier who did not support Prater, Midwest paid the heavy price for not supporting an egomaniac who took everything personally and saw the job as his stepping stone into a nice DC job after he served his two terms.
In October of 2008, Moak pulled his SPC Committee from supporting the Midwest pilots when they were picketing our company. He called the MEC and told them he was “appalled at their actions” and told them that, "We (DAL MEC) don't treat our management down here like that." Of course they don’t. Lee has been bought and paid for by former DAL management lobbyists who have him do their bidding. His next career has already been assured and his pockets are well lined for when he leaves ALPA.
Lee called Tony Freitas months later, whining about the "rumors" he heard. He said there were people up at Midwest who thought he had something to do with Midwest's demise. He ASKED if any of the furloughed Pilots at Midwest might be interested in DAL interviews, and told Freitas he'd be in touch once they start hiring. To this day, that phone call has never happened. Even today, as FAPA and Moak are having their love fest, has Tony been asked to participate in the discussions? No.
You have to wonder how FAPA's Captain Thomas feels about DAL flying right on top of all their flights out of MKE and MKC? When UAL/CAL eventually wakes up and realizes their problem is not with their management, but with ALPA, you have to wonder how he and FAPA will feel when UAL/CAL teams up with SWA in DEN to take them on. I'm sure Moak and the ALPA Executive Council will rush to their rescue.
Remember when Prater went to MSP? And he said he would “change his zip code?” When he met with the leadership and was asked for help, Prater very calmly said, “If I help Midwest, I will have to help Champion, Mesaba, and Compass."
Why in the hell should he help out a “little guy” like Midway...... who had 100% membership and ran its budget in the "black," for their entire history at ALPA?
In December 2007, NWA MEC chair Dave Stevens was struggling with a decision. Should they deal with the "little guy," Midwest first, and then deal with the "big one, DAL next, or go with what Moak wanted and deal straight with him. We all now know the end of the story. By February 2008, the communications between Midwest leadership and NWA MEC Chairman Stevens were done. He refused to return calls.
Later on after the demise was over, Stevens Executive Administrator told Jay Schnedorf that; "Dave felt he let the Midwest guys down". Well Dave, you DID let them down.
If you look around, it's already started..."We are ALPA! Want a sticker? How about a lanyard?"
Does IBT National assign, encourage or sanction their "international representative for all flight deck crewmembers" to post anti-any-union-but-IBT messages on the industry message boards? Or is it part of the job description?
03-21-2011 | 05:26 AM
#3
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From: retired
03-21-2011 | 07:13 AM
#4
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From: What day is it?
While we're on the subject, given your vast knowledge posted here of the inner workings, what is your position with FAPA?
03-21-2011 | 12:12 PM
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I have answered this question before but, I have no position with FAPA except as a small, obscure and seldom used committee member.
I think FAPA just does a better job of keeping their membership informed (at least those members who wish to be informed).
Last edited by F9 A319; 03-21-2011 at 04:54 PM.
03-21-2011 | 06:29 PM
#6
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I have no "vast knowledge" of the "inner workings", I just try to keep up.
I have answered this question before but, I have no position with FAPA except as a small, obscure and seldom used committee member.
I think FAPA just does a better job of keeping their membership informed (at least those members who wish to be informed).
I have answered this question before but, I have no position with FAPA except as a small, obscure and seldom used committee member.
I think FAPA just does a better job of keeping their membership informed (at least those members who wish to be informed).
Oh, and you either currently hold (or have held) a position with FAPA or not. There are no "exceptions." No worries. I believe most already know your identity anyway.
03-21-2011 | 06:55 PM
#7
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Are you flying again, or still out?
03-22-2011 | 07:59 AM
#8
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Too many similarities:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...tml#post911772
Too much inside information:
...In this business it’s understandable how some airlines can unfortunately go by the wayside and Midwest might just have been one of them. But to see your own Union, whom so many paid out so much in dues to over the years, assist in that demise? That’s one that no ALPA supporter can yet explain with a straight face. Moak said that Midwest Pilots would never become DAL pilots, made sure of it in NWA/DAL merger negotiations, Prater went along for political purposes, he needed to keep DAL happy. Why do you think he got a DAL ExAdmin when Helling became VP of Finance?
The Midwest pilots supported Duane Woerth in the 2006 elections. And just like every carrier who did not support Prater, Midwest paid the heavy price for not supporting an egomaniac who took everything personally and saw the job as his stepping stone into a nice DC job after he served his two terms.
In October of 2008, Moak pulled his SPC Committee from supporting the Midwest pilots when they were picketing our company. He called the MEC and told them he was “appalled at their actions” and told them that, "We (DAL MEC) don't treat our management down here like that." Of course they don’t. Lee has been bought and paid for by former DAL management lobbyists who have him do their bidding. His next career has already been assured and his pockets are well lined for when he leaves ALPA.
Lee called Tony Freitas months later, whining about the "rumors" he heard. He said there were people up at Midwest who thought he had something to do with Midwest's demise. He ASKED if any of the furloughed Pilots at Midwest might be interested in DAL interviews, and told Freitas he'd be in touch once they start hiring. To this day, that phone call has never happened. Even today, as FAPA and Moak are having their love fest, has Tony been asked to participate in the discussions? No...
In December 2007, NWA MEC chair Dave Stevens was struggling with a decision. Should they deal with the "little guy," Midwest first, and then deal with the "big one, DAL next, or go with what Moak wanted and deal straight with him. We all now know the end of the story. By February 2008, the communications between Midwest leadership and NWA MEC Chairman Stevens were done. He refused to return calls.
Later on after the demise was over, Stevens Executive Administrator told Jay Schnedorf that; "Dave felt he let the Midwest guys down". Well Dave, you DID let them down....
03-22-2011 | 09:27 AM
#9
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I also don't have the time, desire or energy to enter this discussion without having the facts to prove or disprove his story. I hope one or many MEA guys jump on the opportunity.
ATC has shown he can make fine arguments and is willing to stretch the facts (I think that happens to everyone on this board sometime or another, he just does it a bit more often than most). That's probably a big part of how me got his current job.
He has also demonstrated his willingness to sell every part of his being to whomever currently signs his paycheck.
I don't really care if people know who I am or not. I try to not say anything on any board that I wouldn't say to an individual's face.
I have no standing within FAPA that affects decisions or the day-to-day operation of the Association. My little committee position has nothing to do with any of these issues.
03-22-2011 | 10:13 AM
#10
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From: Furloughed
Slowplay keeps talking about "DB". I can only assume from his posts he's referring to the former ALPA MEC Chairman from Atlas, who is now over at Teamsters.
What I can say about the guy is what I saw when I was an ACA pilot and our office was across the hall from his MEC's office at ALPA. The guy never stopped working for his pilots. We used to laugh because he was always on the phone taking care of problems for them; so much so we used to say he needed a battery surgically implanted.
Personally I think ALPA should be ashamed of losing Atlas. It didn't have anything to do with DB leaving, it had to do with ALPA refusing to move their merger forward. I was across the hall. And the walls were thin. You could hear it all.
Are the Atlas guys better off? Not Sure. Sounds like they just got an awesome contract. And if you read the press, DB and the IBT Airline Division now have new contracts at CAL, Atlas, UPS, and just got one here at UAL. One of our mechanics I know said it's a sweet deal and a big improvement over what IAM did to them.
I don't know, but from here I'm watching ALPA do nothing at UAL for me. Maybe that's why our old guys got fed up and sued. And why us younger guys did too.
You sound like you have a personal axe to grind with DB. That's OK I guess, but since it sure looks like you work for ALPA, how about using your time that we're all paying you for, to do something positive for us?
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