This is all so pointless. FAPA and IBT will never see eye to eye on this deal. Me personally, I could have gone for an inhouse union. I however do not agree with the idea of RPC. Its divisive in nature and would stand little chance of being effective imo. The other huge hangup I have with RPC is I have yet to see any legal document binding those who started it to do as they say. Someone made a great anaolgy before comparing rpc to pelosi's saying of "we need to vote it in to see whats in it". You can tell me how it will work all day long. None of that is legally binding.

That aside, I do predict F9 guys will be horribly upset at the results. Six months from now after the dust settles and IBT has guys from both sides of the house in the EXCO, everything will calm down. People may talk negatively under their breath or in a closed cockpit, but thats about it. I also believe F9 guys will be surprised at how things have changed at the IBT compared to the horror stories of the past.

The majority of RAH pilots that I have spoken with say the same thing.

They want an independent in-house union.

The RPC is the bridge to one Indi union!

If the IBT prevails we are barred from running an new card drive for another two years per the NMB.

If the RPC wins you can designate your own independent union on day one!

Why do you think Doug turner is flying all over the system?!

The RAH pilot group represents 3000 pilots.

If we end up as IBT we make up 3000 of approximately 7000 total IBT pilots.

If the IBT loses this election, they will lose 43% of their total pilot membership.

The IBT doesn't want to lose RAH. They know that the RPC will eventually be one independent union.

If you want in-house NOW, vote RPC

Feels like a political election reading a post like this. May want to check a few of the "facts" you just posted. A few mistakes in the "party talking points"

If you want to give into managments wet dream of having two seperate groups that they can play off of each other to quicken the race to the bottom vote RPC

It's interesting to see that FAPA will not allow IBT national to attend even though as IBT357 members, you will be part of a national union? you guys complain about the money sent up the chain, how such a huge, national union could benefit the small complement of pilots in it, etc., etc., etc. and yet you won't even allow the opportunity to ask?!? you guys claim that IBT guys have their head in the sand? you claim that we only wanna hear what we wanna hear?... pot, meet kettle!!! jeez!! This was your chance to complain about the $700K you mentioned above..... VOTE IBT!!!!

You know...that just seems a bit odd. It would seem to me that a group like FAPA would welcome the opportunity to hear directly from the top about the differences since the place changed leadership.

Why not? Could it be that:

a) The Division Director might tell the truth about what was said and discussed in previous meetings? Creating an ugly situation where the F9 pilots might find out they have been misled?

b) That they will find out that it's harder to lie about someone or an organization to their face?

c) They would be forced to admit that the Airline Division and it's reps are PILOTS...not "truckers and plumbers" as you and others so often like to parrot?

or is it

d) When your pilots find out the facts about what has been going on, you will lose all credibility?

Sounds to me like it may be all of the above.

No he's not, but neither was I. FAPA said that Gannon was free to bring another member of the EXCO. FAPA felt that the pilot group doesn't want to hear a story about what 747 did wrong and how that won't happen again. We are looking ahead to how IBT will fairly represent us. There has been a little dissent about that on the FAPA message board, but the majority of pilots here agree with that idea.

I heard that while $450,000 of your dues have been going to support IBT national annually, you're getting charge special assessments to cover negotiating expenses. FAPA has never had a special assessment, and has over $2 million in its piggy bank for a rainy day. Just something to ponder about the merits of having your dues stay completely in house.

VOTE RPC!

+1!

FAPA doesn't want their pilots to know the truth.... they go on and on about sending money up the chain and how FAPA doesn't do that and yet those in the know all about the details aren't allowed to attend..... DFR failure. now they take heat about it but still say, everyone is still OK with it..... pfffft.

VOTE IBT!!!

RAHbros.....the "Masters of Spin"!

What color is the sky over there in RAHworld? Pink with red polkadots or maybe black and white zebra stripes?

I'd bet I can tell you Flyguy81's dogs doodoo stinks really bad and you'd try to convince me it smells like perfume. I'm glad your all just the vocal 2% because, collectively, you all are a work of art.

"You heard"...but you don't want to be able to ask the people with the facts the question and get the real answer; preferring instead to repeat second, third or fourth hand "information." You want to know how IBT will "fairly represent you," and again you keep those with the answers away.

Funny...if I had the chance to have the person in charge of things willing to come address my pilots, I'd jump at the chance...unless I have something to hide or am afraid my pilots might find out I've been less than truthful about some things. You know, kind of like the old, "two people can keep a secret...if one of them is dead." Seems someone is really afraid that the truth might leak out.

2 million in the bank. How much do your RLA attorney's charge when they represent you, on say things like concession demands from management?

Or regular negotiations? What about financial experts and others needed to do the critical analysis of proposals to make sure you aren't getting railroaded on things like scope, pay and quality of life...or do you have experts in your ranks who do it for free?

And should you lose your lawsuit, will you have to pay the attorney fees for the other side?

What about if you go on strike? Are you paying strike benefits from the 2 million as well? How long will that last if you've been paying for other things?

Suddenly that 2 million sounds pretty small...

This thread belongs in the 'union talk' section, or maybe FI.:o

If that number is wrong, then how much of your dues DO go to National? Doing the math to see if $450,000 is reasonable, you have about 1000 FOs making about $37,000 per year, so that's about $37 million. 1000 captains making around $80,000, so that's $80 million. Dues come to something on the order of $15 million to $20 million, so I think that around $450,000 of that going to National is reasonable. If someone has more exact numbers, please correct me (or does IBT hide that information from the pilot group?)

With RPC, your dues stay with RPC.

That's why we asked Mr. Gannon to come talk to us (he IS the "person in charge", right?). He DECLINED, of his own volition because he didn't want to be there without National reps. Actually, it may NOT have been his decision, he might have had orders from above. By contrast, the FAPA president answers to the pilot group and no one else.

With RPC, your leadership would answer to the pilots alone.

It's certainly larger than what's in your kitty if you're having to charge special assessments. If they're charging you special assessments now, what would happen if you went on strike? Would National suddenly open up the purse?

(BTW - none of the above questions are rhetorical - I'd like honest answers)

This is not about who has more money in the bank.

This is about where your hard earned dues dollars go, and what type of Return on Investment you get for those dollars.

Do 100% of your dues remain in-house

IBT - No, Dues are siphoned to a third party
RPC - Yes, all dues stay in-house, unless the 357 pilots decide to keep IBT, which is entirely their call

Do your dues cover critically important benefits, like LTD insurance?

IBT - No, you must purchase LTD at an additional cost
RPC - YES, LTD premium payments are included in your DUES (and the company is contractually required to pay 90% of the LTD premiums!)

Do your dues cover aeromedical services?

IBT - No, you must purchase aeromedical at an additional cost
RPC - YES, aeromedical is paid in full with a portion of your hard earned dues dollars. Ask anyone that has ever had a medical issue how critically important our aero-medical team at Virtual Flight Surgeon is when it really matters.

Have your bargaining representatives negotiated benefits that are better than the other RAH work groups?

IBT - No, you participate in the same group insurance programs as everyone else at RAH.
RPC - Yes, a special STD plan is in place that provides far superior benefits when compared to the RAH group STD.

These are just a few of the benifits that all 3000 RAH pilots can enjoy if we elect the RPC.

Before you vote, ask yourself why the IBT has decided that you are not important enough to deserve LTD, aeromedical, and STD coverage.

I agree that you have good benefits as part of your dues, but I would assume each frontier pilot also pays more in dues. Also, isn't a vote for RPC simply a vote to allow original frontier guys to remain a separate group (getting to keep FAPA and the associated benefits), while original RAH pilots are stuck finding their own representation (or keeping ibt anyways)? I dont think you can honestly say that a vote for RPC is going to extend your benefits to the other pilot groups.... It just allows you to keep yours.

Just be honest. You'd like to remain completely separate from your RAH peers and RPC is your only hope. There is no true benefit to RAH employees in voting RPC. You have no give and take. Just you keep yours, and leave RAH pilots to continue the status quo (same representation and same whipsaw with frontier).

Feel free to correct my viewpoint if I am not understanding this correctly.

RPC Unity,

Everything just mentioned by you in this post was negotiated by FAPA, not RPC- unless they are one and the same entity. Every line of this post has RPC by the negotiated benefit, which is in FAPA's CBA.

How many of these benefits will be amended in FAPA's current round of concessions?

You are clearly demonstrating that FAPA would thence be in charge of RPC. So, once again where are the RPC by-laws? What is to prevent a change in the 3 and 3 format of the "Council?"

In one post, you say RPC in different than FAPA, and the next (this one) you describe FAPA by replacing the name with RPC. There are even contradictions of the RPC description between you and Mulva and Faultpush, let alone F9 Driver and zooropa. Who is to say, what the actual stance is on any subject when the FAPA BOD takes different stances on areas like these?

Once again, not being emotional, just logically looking at the huge problems that RPC would cause for all the pilots of RAH.


Dan Sneddon
Capt., Republic Airlines


And yes, everyone may have noticed. Everything I post is under my name.

Are those three things standard with ALPA? I know that aeromedical is with ALPA, but I can't believe that it isn't with the AIRLINE division of IBT.

Then perhaps you can clarify that it was YOU that chose not to come to speak to the F9 pilots. It's been going around on here that FAPA didn't want you to come.

Consolidated to post #57

So now you've gone from "I heard" to "I think." When you had an opportunity to get answers from the person who leads the Division, you refused. And you end with the cute line about the IBT "hiding" information.

You then "suggest" that Pat didn't attend on "orders from above." Despite knowing better. So it's obviously better to claim that information is "hidden" and Pat is controlled "on orders from above."

You also "forgot" to answer the question about your "kitty." How much do you anticipate spending on the lawsuit you just filed? How much for attorneys? Experts? How much are you spending for your concessionary talks with Bedford? Everyone else wants to negotiate for more, and you're already giving up the house.

What's the offer? You'll fly for less to screw the other pilots on the property? Maybe you can take the 2 million and PAY Bedford to fly his jets.

It appears that the RPC concept of "unity" is rooted in deceit (that both groups; IBT and RPC can remain as bargaining agents), innuendo ("I heard," "Hidden," "On orders from above") or obfuscation (refusing to say how much you have budgeted from your $2 million dollar "kitty" for lawsuits and the like).

Given the lockdown, extremely detailed audit process the IBT has on finances, one can only wonder how FAPA's bools would fare in the same type of audit. Because let be honest; RPC is FAPA...FAPA is RPC.

So let's ask the question. When was the last time your books were audited? Is that information public?

Or is the information "hidden" on "orders from above?"

1. Does Pat Gannon not even know how much money is going to National? We wanted answers from him.

2. I asked a question. I'm glad you thought it was cute, but I'd prefer and answer to compliments (or evasion?)

1. I was clear that it wasn't rhetorical, and thus not a "suggestion", but a question.

2. Once again, you lie. I asked a question - I didn't claim that.


The whole SLI case cost about $2 million, so while I'm not the treasurer, it's certainly a whole lot less than that. FAPA gets a lot of bang for the buck - dozens of LOA's without a fuss. It's called negotiating, vs demanding. It's quite apparent to me which has produced better results for its respective pilot group.


That's just pure rhetoric there.

Regarding FAPA's finances, I can call our treasurer and ask him about that, but I don't feel a need to share that with you. If you don't like that, then no need to vote for FAPA (I'm not). I'm asking the question because Teamsters IS asking for my vote.

[QUOTE=yetanother;1006199]I agree that you have good benefits as part of your dues, but I would assume each frontier pilot also pays more in dues. Also, isn't a vote for RPC simply a vote to allow original frontier guys to remain a separate group (getting to keep FAPA and the associated benefits), while original RAH pilots are stuck finding their own representation (or keeping ibt anyways)? I dont think you can honestly say that a vote for RPC is going to extend your benefits to the other pilot groups.... It just allows you to keep yours.

Just be honest. You'd like to remain completely separate from your RAH peers and RPC is your only hope. There is no true benefit to RAH employees in voting RPC. You have no give and take. Just you keep yours, and leave RAH pilots to continue the status quo (same representation and same whipsaw with frontier). [QUOTE]

Our dues have changed over the years. We had 1.65%, then 1.5 for a number of years. We are currently at 1.65%. Every year we publish a budget and that budget is approved by the membership.

RPC is NOT at all about "remaining completely separate".

Grievance, himms, pro standards, system board, negotiating, Jumpseat, and R&I would all merge and the benefits to the membership would be demonstrable immediately.

This is where I was going with my post that Capt. Sneddon addressed.

Obviously, if the RPC prevails, a number of FAPA reps will remain active. The same can be said of the current 357 Exco.

Each set of Bylaws will remain in effect, and the council will work on a new set for the RPC.

The Local 357 was functioning for quite some time without their own set of by-laws. Why was that acceptable for the IBT and not for the RPC.

I have been very active with the creation and administration of some of the current benefits in place for FAPA pilots (LTD, STD, VFS, etc.)

We can get the entire pilot group on the STD and LTD plan with little effort and minimal costs especially considering the fact that we would be increasing the group size while lowering the average age slightly.

VFS is rather expensive ($1000 per quarter for 700 pilots). However I believe it is completely worth it if it helps just one pilot each year.

None of these benefits were touched during the recent discussions with the company. Nothing has been ratified yet, but the "concession" includes the deferral of two snap backs, a temporary reduction in 401k match, two small accrual reductions and a longevity freeze for most pilots for one year. That is the extent of the give. No work rules were touched, no pay rates were reduced. Previously furloughed pilots will jump from year 2 longevity up to year 4 longevity, an approximate raise in pay of $13 per hour ($60 - $73).

RPC is not FAPA

RPC is FAPA AND the IBT.

It is similar to other programs in aviation that do not function without 100% participation form all involved groups (ASAP comes to mind).

The IBT alone will not work. FAPA alone will not work.

The IBT AND FAPA, working together with a council, will work the best considering all of the options available.

ATC asked about an audit.

The FAPA C&B's require an annual audit.

A third party CPA firm visits the FAPA office for one week every February and completes an extensive audit of all FAPA accounts.

The final annual report, and all previous annual reports, are available for membership review.

Faultpush,

I was never asked to come speak to FAPA. In fact, it was insisted upon by Dom. Vice Chairman Trevor Jenkins that only Chairman Pat Gannon and one other ExCo member be allowed to address the FAPA membership. I have seen the email chain, in which that was insisted.

Capt. Gannon attempted to bring Capt Bourne as well as our Local Trustee Doug Turner, but was denied this opportunity by FAPA. It is clear that FAPA wanted to be able to control the conversation from the outset and did not want its membership to hear everything about Local 357, and the IBT.

I can imagine why I was not asked to speak, as your Secretary/Treasurer and I had a long conversation of why I would not support RPC. This is summed up in my post titled: 'History repeating itself with RPC".

I have also not received any retorts or debate about the factual points made about RPC being a front for FAPA as evidence is presented earlier by me, or any debate about the facts brought up in my thread listed above.

So, as I am willing to post everything under my own name without hiding behind a moniker, I am willing to talk about the facts surrounding this process to anyone. I was not asked to speak, so NO I did not choose not too. And by the way, I am not on the ExCo. I am an appointed Chairman of my Committees.

Respectfully,

Dan Sneddon
Capt. Republic Airlines

RPC,

Under Federal Labor Law and the RLA, the Duty of Fair Representation falls to the Elected Representative to a group of Unionized Employees.

Has the NMB accredited or recognized the RPC as a bargaining Agent? No.

Therefore, until the "Council" is formed, who then has Representational authority over the Republic Pilots should RPC win? What is the time frame for RPC by-laws when one group is un-represented, because by federal law, the IBT would no longer be recognized for the Republic Pilots.

So, following this line of questions, if the IBT no longer represents the Republic Pilots, and no "council" has been formed, who has the burden of Duty of Fair Representation? Is it FAPA? If you say no, it is not FAPA, then these Republic Pilots could be unrepresented for an extended period of time. If you say it is FAPA, then there is no legal document that provides that a "council" must be formed, as FAPA has its own by-laws.

The legal research is obviously limited then by which RPC has authority to act as a bargaining agent, by which power it has to form a council, and by what authority it will control over the "two separate bargaining" units. All of these statements can be summed up, by "we don't know."

Therefore, legally speaking RPC is a front for FAPA, by which there are no by-laws creating the "Council" to which it will answer, or this is purely a method to de-unionize the Republic Pilots.

Either of those, is bad news for Republic Pilots. You can claim otherwise, but show me the legal authority or change in FAPA by-laws to show it. FAPA will refuse to make itself sbu-servient to a "Council", while requiring the Republic pilots to do just that.

Once again, I ask for logic, not emotion. Show me the documentation, the by-laws, and the recognition by the NMB to allow this to happen. By the way, the Gate Gormet/IBT which has been touted as the example to follow for RPC, was separately ratified and then recognized by the NMB prior to the election.

Respectfully,

Dan Sneddon
Capt. Republic Airlines

Dan, the most common example of the council structure is Gate Gourmet. The IBT/HERE council submitted their request for recognition to the NMB on may 18, 2000 and were recognized by the NMB on October 11,2000.

It took the IBT/HERE council 145 days to be determined by the NMB as the bargaining rep for the GG employees.

Meanwhile, the employer at GG recognized a Master Working Agreement in June of the same year. The employees were working under a MWA for three months before the NMB recognized the council as the bargaining rep. The world did not come to an end at GG. The 357 EXCO Chair told me that the GG Council "has been a disaster". The employees have had every opportunity to run another card drive and certify a new union. They have instead chosen to keep their Council. Not only are the IBT/HERE employees happy with their council, they ratified their second MWA in 1996 and their third MWA in 2010.

During each contract negotiation, there were IBT members and HERE members at the table.

Three contracts in ten years. Sounds like a success story to me.

Finally, the craft and class of workers at GG operate under the RLA, just like we do.

Obviously, NO ONE is recommending that the RAH pilot group de-unionize. The fact that you even attempt to spread this rumor is another example of the IBT's pathological fear mongering. We are participating in an NMB representation election. The ONLY way we can possibly de-unionize at RAH is if a majority of the votes cast are for "no representation".

All of this has been done before. We are not plowing new ground under the RLA or with the NMB.

This is just new to us at RAH.

The Council is NOT a stand alone entity. It is a group effort that includes reps from the entire membership.

I look forward to working with you Dan, and quite frankly I expect more from you than what you posted above.

[QUOTE=RPC Unity;1006259][QUOTE=yetanother;1006199]I agree that you have good benefits as part of your dues, but I would assume each frontier pilot also pays more in dues. Also, isn't a vote for RPC simply a vote to allow original frontier guys to remain a separate group (getting to keep FAPA and the associated benefits), while original RAH pilots are stuck finding their own representation (or keeping ibt anyways)? I dont think you can honestly say that a vote for RPC is going to extend your benefits to the other pilot groups.... It just allows you to keep yours.

Just be honest. You'd like to remain completely separate from your RAH peers and RPC is your only hope. There is no true benefit to RAH employees in voting RPC. You have no give and take. Just you keep yours, and leave RAH pilots to continue the status quo (same representation and same whipsaw with frontier). So we need to vote in RPC and get on the concession bangwagon??? Joooooy..... pfffft!

On one page an RAH pilot argues we are going to have one list and one contract tomorrow.

On the next page I offer some constructive ways we can work together and you say we can't accomplish those goals because we will have separate CBAs for a while.

You guys are using whatever argument available to suit your need at the time.

I am not trying to convince 80% of the IBT members that refuse to open their eyes to what else is available to them.

I am trying to show the 20% of IBT members that are open to moving on to the next level of union representation.

If you don't have an open mind, that is fine. Keep doing what you are doing.

Keep throwing good money away.

Keep working with a 1.4 million member union that is clueless about RLA negotiations and represents only 6000 pilots.

James Hoffa robo called me yesterday. Did he talk about pay and work rules? No. Did he talk about retirement plans and insurance? No

He talked about going on strike.

That is the IBT way. All or nothing. Refuse to negotiate and get whatever you can while on strike. Works great for truckers with contracts that expire. It doesn't work at all for pilots that work under the RLA and have contracts that become amendable.

If you are voting for the IBT, holding out hope for jet blue wages and counting on a strike to answer all of your dreams, you deserve the IBT and the IBT deserves your hard earned dues dollars.

Open your eyes folks.

RPC,

I love it. You are literally campaigning against yourself.

Keep it up!

Everybody knows that a JCBA has to be created. Until then the contracts are separate. Where IBT differs is that IBT wants 1 contract to cover all which FAPA (RPC) wants to keep their own stuff and leave the IBT pilots to do their own thing while the 2 sides occasionally check-in but don't really hang out much.... Now that you are voting on BBS concessions, it just further shows how much of a whimp FAPA really is. you wanted proof of a whipsaw, you just got it!


KY in a 10# can is:

The point is, it was Dan that testified to that and was referring to his career expectations at RAH!!

I don't recall if it was a 747 or 777 though and I'm not going to dig through the transcripts.

I don't care who you are - that's funny.

F9 319:

It is called math. When I got hired at Chautauqua, we were flying 19 seat turboprops. 10 years later 86 Seat (and then 99 seat) jets. Extrapolate another 20 years and wallah. A 30 year career based upon long -term growth at this Company.

Ask how many original Lake Central or Mohawk DC-3 First Officers thought they would have retired off of the A330? Ask how many original Republic (merged with Northwest) pilots thought they would retire off of the whale?

Once again logic vs. emotion. And still no substantive responses to any of my questions.

Dan Sneddon
Capt. Republic Airlines

No Lake Central, Mowhawk, or original Republic expected to end up where they did.

Just because you buy a lottery ticket every time you fill up your gas tank doesn't mean you expect to retire a millionaire. Sure, it happens for some people but not for the majority.

Let's call a spade a spade here: Any pilot who has been at Republic longer than 10 years is either unhireable or unmotivated. They aren't there because they think they will retire on a 747.

Hey Capt. Dan,

I did some cyphering based on your "math". Using the 86:19 seat ratio in your post, I calculated a multiple of 4.52631579 which, when applied and extrapolated per your example, yields a pretty impressive result. Are you guys really banking on flying 1,761 (ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED SIXTY ONE) seat aircraft in 20 years? Shizzle! Now that is some mighty heavy iron. Will the IBT357 be negotiating pay rates for that airplane in the ball park of 9,271% (inflation adjusted of course!) of those you received when flying that 19 seater? If so, then maybe assimilation into the IBT357 won't be such a bad thing.

Just thought I'd take a crack at beating back a bit of that ever present emotion with a sprinkling of logic and, admittedly, some sarcasm too.

BTW...what was your pay rate (inflation adjusted if you don't mind doing the math) when you got hired into that 19 seater? Just curious how it compares to your current rates.

AND just one more thing Capt. Dan. Do you mind sharing your decision making process (see next post #74) that led you to choose Chautauqua over UAL, Delta, NWA, LUV, etc. when seeking employment opportunities as a pilot?

I'll throw a little credit where it is due and say:
The key word being "CHOICE" and we all have the right to make them as we see fit. Aside from the wildly successful ACA debacle, the vast majority of non-Military trained "Mainline" pilots chose to leave a "lesser" job in pursuit of the mighty "Holy Grail". Some chose not to for various reasons. Some also failed in their efforts (unhireable) while some simply never tried (unmotivated).

The spade is a spade! Can we kill this one yet?

Whimp[sic]? FAPA has accomplished FAR more for us than IBT has for RAH, without threatening a strike.

Is it possible for you to drop a trip on the day of the trip?
Can you drop a lame overnight out of a trip just because you don't feel like spending 15 hours in SLC for 3 hours of pay?
Can reserve pilots make more than 100 hours pay a month by choice?
Can you swap out of a trip with another pilot in an outstation?
Can your reserve pilots move reserve days around?
Do your pilots create the lines, based on pilot input?

These are some of the benefits of collaborative bargaining. It's FAR more effective than "give us what we want, or we'll strike". With RPC, you have a chance of moving towards that kind of power. With IBT...well, I'll have to listen long enough to hear what the robot has to say the next time I get a call from "UNAVAILABLE".

Wallah?

I'm looking at the disambiguation on wiki, without much luck.
Wallah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sweet I'm voting for RPC!!!

Wait I can do all that now....

And still not an answer to any of my questions about RPC. All of which have great impact on the future of Republic pilots. With so many pilots "in the know" why will no one answer these questions? Instead, pilots choose to character assassinate while avoiding the points made.


Mulva amd Faultpush, here is the hard line on career expectations as spoken by the (then) FAPA President: (this was also admitted as evidence). Most of the FAPA BOD was the same at this time.


June 22, 2009


Dear Fellow Pilots:

Frontier (including Holdings, Frontier Airlines, and Lynx) filed documents today with the bankruptcy court supporting a Plan of Reorganization (Plan) to be sponsored by Republic Airways Holdings Inc (Republic.) Republic’s offer begins the “auction phase” of the bankruptcy process that will end on August 11, 2009. During this auction phase other potential investors may submit competing bids for consideration by the court. Absent a better offer from another investor, and if Republic’s Plan is approved, they will acquire 100% of Frontier Airlines Holdings Inc. (Frontier) outright and fund Frontier’s emergence from Chapter 11 bankruptcy. In return Republic will pay $108.75MM, of which $28.75MM will be distributed to the Unsecured Creditors (including FAPA.) This potentially gives the Unsecured Creditors between 9 and 7 cents per each dollar of unsecured claim (depending on the final size of the unsecured claim pool).

Due in large part to our sacrifices and our continued commitment to providing the best service in the airline business, Frontier’s recent turnaround has been remarkable. In normal times, a successful turnaround such as this would no doubt attract significant interest from investors, but unfortunately these are not normal times. Many airlines have reported that the capital markets have their “no access” signs out and there is very little “at risk” money being made available to the industry. Despite innumerable overtures by Frontier management to investment banks, airlines, and hedge funds, Republic has surfaced as the only investor with a serious interest in Frontier, and as such, we must give Republic’s offer, along with its various terms, due consideration since Frontier simply cannot emerge from bankruptcy without receiving a significant cash infusion from a sponsor. The current $40MM DIP loan from Republic matures on December 1, 2009, and without a replacement loan Frontier would likely be forced to wind down its operation, sell its assets, and close the doors.

There are many terms and conditions within the Republic Plan that must be satisfied in return for this investment. Of interest to FAPA Members – the Republic Plan requires changes be made to our CBA including a 3 year extension (to March 2, 2015) of the amendable date and a change to Section 1.F allowing for “unlimited scope relief.” For all employees, the Frontier profit sharing plan will be replaced with a Republic profit sharing plan. Republic’s terms are initial “asks” and not changes that will be casually forced upon us. Republic has indicated that they plan to operate Frontier as a separate fenced off company and not merge seniority lists.

Republic is acting as an investor and has tasked Frontier Management to negotiate on their behalf, so we have begun negotiations over these terms with Frontier management. Once again, untenable circumstances shape our reality: capital market conditions dictate that we cannot simply dismiss these terms outright. We are forced to take a hard look at our circumstances just as we have had to each time concessions have been required of us. If negotiations are successful, these “asks” will become more palatable and still allow our Members and Frontier to move forward.

The CBA remains binding unless/until we agree to acceptable changes or unless/until the court, through contract rejection, forces changes upon us. In order to preserve our rights under the CBA we intend to dispute a breach of the Successorship language (1.H), which requires a successor entity acquiring the Frontier to assume the terms of our CBA in total. Republic is insisting we modify our CBA prior to their acquisition.

“1. This Agreement shall be binding upon any successor or assign of the Company unless and until changed in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended. For the purposes of this Paragraph H, a successor or assign shall be defined as an Entity, which acquires all or substantially all of the assets or equity of the Company through a single transaction or multi-step, related transactions.
2. No contract or other legally binding commitment involving a successor or assign shall be signed or otherwise entered into unless it is agreed as a material and irrevocable condition of entering into, concluding and implementing such transaction that the successor shall be bound by this Agreement, shall recognize the Association as the representative of the Pilots, and shall assume the employment of the Pilots. "

If we are able to reach an agreement with Republic and ratify changes to the CBA in accordance with what Republic seeks, the grievance will be dropped. If we aren’t able to reach agreement, we have the ability to object to the Republic Plan in court, but Republic has the ability to withdraw their sponsorship if we do not agree to the changes they are demanding.

In order to ensure that Frontier remains viable, our contract survives, and most importantly - that our jobs and futures are as secure as we can make them in these uncertain times, we must look at our situation as dispassionately as we are able. Negotiations between FAPA and Republic have begun and will be on the fast track. If another investor, prior to the deadline of August 10, 2009, makes a competing bid the auction will be held on August 11. Assuming we are successful in negotiating changes that we can live with, we intend to have roadshow style informational meetings starting after the July 4th holiday and prior to a voting period of at least 21 days. Sean Menke and Republic CEO Bryan Bedford have pledged to attend some of these meetings. This is the most important vote of the bankruptcy process and I encourage everyone to attend at least one meeting in order to make an informed decision prior to casting your vote. We will keep you advised of new developments as they occur.

Sincerely,


John Stemmler
President
Frontier Airline Pilots Association



And finally:


August 14, 2009
Pilot Union Response to Failed Frontier Bid (DALLAS) Statement of Attribution to Capt. Carl Kuwitzky, SWAPA President Media Note: Please use this statement in lieu of interviews. “We have received notice of the bankruptcy court’s decision to not award Southwest Airlines with the acquisition of Frontier Holdings. It appears, as we suspected, that the lack of an agreement between the two pilots unions on an integration plan caused the court to not deem the Southwest Airlines bid as qualified. However, it should be noted that Frontier also said that Republic’s bid was the “highest and best.” So it wasn’t solely about labor. First and foremost, we wish the best of luck to the current Frontier Airlines pilots. We felt they would have been a good fit for our culture and operation. The offer that we presented FAPA representatives on Wednesday night addressed three of their four stated needs; allowing pay protections for their pilots which would have given roughly a 40 percent raise for their First Officers, providing domicile protection for their Denver-based pilots, and guaranteeing that all of their 650+ pilots would be placed on our seniority list including their furloughed pilots. While they chose to not entertain placing their seniority list below ours, we felt protecting their pay and home domicile while providing a job security was an extremely fair offer. In the end, the Frontier bankruptcy lawyers allowed only a few hours to negotiate an integration agreement that historically takes months or years to accomplish. Next, we are thankful to work with a company that in this instance chose to put employee relations ahead of all other priorities. Southwest Airlines chose to include a labor contingency in their bid for Frontier Airlines. That contingency guaranteed no drawn-out labor integration battle that is seen in so many other mergers and acquisitions. They felt that having happy and satisfied employees, on both the SWA and Frontier sides was paramount to a successful deal and a successful airline. We applaud that mindset. SWAPA encourages the Company to maintain that successful labor relations mindset while working with us to swiftly complete negotiations on our 15-year-old contract.”

All Republic Pilots should take note of FAPA's representation of its pilots, and once again as I have said numerous times, I am a student of history- and it often repeats itself.

Dan Sneddon
Capt. Republic Airlines

Carl Kuwitzky had it right. Without a staple, it will be a long process for Air Tran and SWA.

But I'm still at a loss for why you think these letters help your case. There's very few pilots at Frontier who felt (or feel) that turning down a staple job with SWA was a bad thing, especially now that Air Tran will get an equitable integration (unless ALPA throws them under the bus like they did to TWA).

He's asking where the documentation is that supports the RPC claims and if they've filed the proper paperwork with govt. It's a simple question. I've asked even on the RPC site and all I did was get a sales pitch.