Delta Pilots consider alternative to ALPA
 

Delta Pilots are forming a new Union called DPA, Delta Pilots Association.

Will this cause ALPA to go bankrupt?


Here's an excert from www.delta-pilots.org :


1. Financial transparency to members – One click access to ALL the financials is available to EVERY DPA Member. Once you are a member, login and click “DPA Finance Log” in the sidebar. External audits will validate the data the Members ALREADY have. We will know our dues are being spent wisely.
2. Financial efficiency – NO subsidizing the regional carriers who want our flying. How our current dues are distributed: More than 16% (approx. $689,000 in 2010) of the MECʼs account allocation for operating income is redistributed to smaller ALPA carriers. ALL DPA dues go completely to meeting Delta Pilotsʼ needs and desires.
3. Financial responsibility – Reduce excessive and unnecessary spending of Member dues. (For example - $6,500/mo housing allowance for the President, $4,500/ mo housing allowance for V.P.s, $1,600/mo car allowance, $498,000 annual compensation for the President, $120,000/year secretaries, $175,000/year magazine editors, massive bonus pensions, $329.00 per night hotel rooms, $260 per day per diem, etc.) DPA Officers and Block Reps will fly partial lines every month and will earn a reasonable reward for service to the Delta Pilots.

First, of what Im guessing will be many!!!!!

I know they are hurting since USAirways/America West Decertified them.

Now they are loosing AirTran too!

Jetblue may be their only hope for survival.


Looks like ALPA has become too corupt to survive.

ALPA is subsidizing the regional airlines at a very expensive rate, and not even helping to form a single seniority list.

What a MESS!!!!!!!!!

They are not losing Delta. DPA has been around for a year now. They are not even close to getting the cards they need for a election and the cards they have on file are starting to expire. It will never even come to a vote. There have been past efforts at DAL after a merger and pilots who don't like the seniority list result try to change unions. I believe after a year of trying they have only about 2500 cards and they need 6000 to even call for a election.

Heyas,

In my opinion, and only as a thought exercise:

The loss of DAL would, no doubt, cause a cash crunch.

Assuming that FDX and UAL/CAL wouldn't particularly wish to shoulder the burden of every other pilot group remaining in ALPA, it's my guess that they'd probably bail as well. AirTran is already a forgone conclusion.

So what happens then? My guess is the major airlines would form a new group, possibly with SWA, UPS and AMR included, albiet with a much looser "Articles of Confederation" than what ALPA currently operates under. Call it "Super Premium Major Airline Pilots Coalition" (SPMAPC).

Those groups would seek to contract out major items of collective interest that is now handled by ALPA National, such as Aeromedical, EF&A, and the ALPA PAC.

Ironically, those parts of ALPA are already set up to operate as a contract entity, and already handle many pilot groups outside of ALPA.

In consideration of this, what happens to ALPA National as it now stands? My guess without the massive cash flow of the majors, they'd need to split up and pare down as much as possible, and split off the revenue producing part of ALPA from the representational part.

The first thing that would happen, in my wild guess, is that all of the services that are already set up to provide contract services, such as the above (Aeromed, EF&A, etc) would be placed into a holding group. Call it "Airline Pilot Services, Inc".

The ALPA PAC would probably be renamed "Airline Pilots Congressional Action Committee" or some such. They would become the main lobby-for-hire group.

The representational half would remain as ALPA, but now left representing regional and smaller airlines. Without the major subsidy provided by the heavy hitters, I'm not sure how well they'd fair. There would certainly have to be a dues increase to try to retain any semblance of the services they now enjoy.

But without the barrier of DFR, those groups could then actively solicit major airline flying (AKA race to the bottom). OTOH, the major airline groups could wage unrestricted warfare to reclaim their flying, without much worry of RJDC type actions.

All in all, the chairs would remain the same, just re-organized, with much more emphasis on autonomy and contracting out the grunt work. The services provided to the smaller & regional airlines would, no doubt, suffer.

As I said, I'm bored, and just running a thinking game. Who wants to jump in?

Nu

The Delta pilots are satisfied with our representation.
We love working under this bankruptcy contract. We have LOA #29 now.
Twenty nine "constructive engagement" negotiations and still no wage restoration, but hey, times are tough. Our union is teaching us how to read the balance sheet so we'll know just how bad things are.

The DPA is just a tiny group of troublemakers.
ALPA is handling the situation --

Love the video, was that from the ALPA communications' website?

Same thing at Comair, except no LOAs and no snapbacks yet.

ALPA at work for you.

ALPA will inevitably fail, it may start with United decertifying them. Delta will take longer.

I could pull a BH (comm chair) and just tell you you're wrong. But I'll correct your inaccuracies. They only had a very small number of cards at this time last year. The vast majority of the cards didn't start coming in until August of last year and will not start to expire until then.

A complete lie that you and others like to tell over and over in spite of having been corrected numerous times. DPA has been extremely clear that the SLI has absolutely nothing to do with this and that they have no intention of revisiting that issue.

Close, but not quite...

http://www.delta-pilots.org/storage/...=1307256043999

Agree 100%. SLI will not be revisited despite ill feelings towards it. It would just open a can of worms making this place miserable and then we'd all loose even more ground collectively. ALPA will fail for aforementioned reasons.

I thought this thread died under a different name. DPA is DOA

No, DPA is not dead.

Maybe not....but it is a joke.

Delta Pilots to keep ALPA? (speculation)
 

Cool! I love facts that fit rumors.

:)

Will ALPA President Lee Moak get to keep his $6,500/month housing allowance and his $1,600/month car allowance, along with his $498,000 annual salary???

I am relieved to hear that Delta will keep ALPA. I thought for sure that ALPA would be bankrupt having lost USAirways/America West & now AirTran.


How on earth could they afford those mounting salaries of the ever-so-powerful Union Leaders?


We need their strength to survive..........and subsidize the regionals.

Pinchanikled, that salary and those allowances were all changed in the 2010 BOD. What you posted is old and out of date information.

There does seem to be a certain loss of enthusiasm.

Not even remotely close to the truth. DPA is growing daily and the ALPA guys hate this fact.

Not as out of wack as this threads title.

Not at all, DPA is stronger than ever and growing exponentially. The team behind DPA is doing a severely good job and different from ALPA, they are staying professional about it. The team members from DPA are working on a volunter basis, ALPA took 6 guys off the line and paid for them to dissrupt their promotion in ATL. ALPA should be ashamed of their 1940's mob techniques in their attempts to stop DPA. DPA will take over presentation of Delta pilots, it's just a matter of time, and it is for the benefit of 99.9% of all Delta pilots (meaning all but the ones making a living from ALPA pay only and that either can't nor will fly for a living).

FV, I just say that there seems to be a certain lack of enthusiasm because I don't see any green bag tags in the Atlanta pilot lounge. With 800 guys in Atlanta signed up for DPA, I'd expect to see a bunch.

I agree DPA is growing exponentially, but the exponent is something like 1.02. Once the one year time factor is included after August, the exponent will be less than 1.

The salary information is wrong.

Slow and steady wins the race.

Severely good job? You mean like admitting running to management seemingly trying to get one of their fellow pilots fired over a humorous video?:rolleyes:

Yeah...that's some "professional" folks I want doing representation.:eek:

Anybody think it's strange that DPA guys (including TC) got scholarships for their kids from Delta management and the ALPA guys kids....

Anyone with DPA know how Seham is getting paid?

They never tried to get anyone fired. But the ALPA guys who were paid flight pay loss to be at the DPA event to disrupt it, ran to the chief pilot's office constantly to allege wrongdoing on DPA's part.

You mean getting paid flight pay loss to disrupt the free speech rights of DPA members? I know this is you and ALPA at your finest slow.

Post the evidence...then it's relevance.

Carl

You can do your own research, Groundskeeper. It's readily available on DeltaNet and I won't be posting a bunch of non-pilot employee names here. DPA's "leader" got extra from management. You determine the relevance.

Oh, here's the quote from their "after action"

Unfortunately for the authors, evidence was left behind that DPA was able to analyze and use, pointing to specific Delta pilots. Delta management was provided the evidence because the Delta brand was being tarnished and the videos violated Delta's Social Media Policy. Management committed to throwing the “full weight of Delta Air Lines” behind the prosecution of this unprofessional behavior. It is sad that careers may be in jeopardy because individuals can find no better way to respond to DPA assertions.

The folks you support knowingly went to management because they could find no better way to respond to their hurt feelings. That's severely professional?:eek:

Certainly not the behavior of anyone I'd expect to represent pilots.

Apparently DPA=Delta management's social media police.

Glad to see that Delta management gave DPA's leader a scholarship for his kid.

There is no relevance. None. What's next for you? Waving your arms screaming that DPA used their pass privileges or something?

Your ALPA operatives were paid flight pay loss from our union dues to disrupt DPA activities in ATL. Then these same paid operatives went screaming to the chief pilot's office numerous timers per day ALLEGING VIOLATIONS OF LAW AND COMPANY POLICY!

I know how important it is for you to deflect what the ALPA operatives did, but just remember this: Along with screaming to the chief pilots every day, one of your union paid thugs produced a filthy sex based video using the Delta Air Lines name in it. Another poor use of union dues.

But don't pay attention to any of this. Just pay attention to the SINGLE incident of DPA members turning over this evidence, as opposed to your paid dudes alleging law violations numerous times PER DAY!

LOL! You must be so proud, and management must be so happy to have your level of maturity to negotiate with. If it weren't for agency shop and the fact that you are useful idiots for management, you and your thugs would be long gone by now.

Carl

You mean the behavior of using dues money to give flight pay loss to guys coming to disrupt the free speech rights of an organization that has the backing of 2,700 Delta pilots?

DALPA apparently = We'll use your dues money however we want. Including trying to get guys fired by alleging violations of law and company policy directly to management numerous times per day. And as is so typical of ALPA...losing.

Agreed. I'm for helping any kid get a good start.

Carl

"a filthy sex based video" is a bit of a stretch. I thought it was "art". Kind of like Michelangelo's David, only in video format. A few colorful words here and there were simply meant to draw the viewer's attention to the facts.

Facts? Unbelievable. Enjoy your "art" dude. Just don't be shocked if any company takes offense at a filthy sex based video that uses the company's name.

You wouldn't think you'd have to tell people that...would you.

Carl

Especially when provided any "evidence" by a group that purports to want to represent ALL Delta pilots.

Yeah, you'd think that a group that wants to represent folks wouldn't have to stoop so low...

You're defending the indefensible, Carl, and your attempted redirection is pretty transparent. But it's par for the course of the amateurs that you support.

It's amusing how you never ask yourself the question as to why there was any evidence in the first place? One of your thug buddies produces a raunchy sex based video and uses the Delta Air Lines name, and you cry about who turned over the evidence. So typical of the ALPA apologist who will not be accountable for anything.

Now let's look at the evidence that your union dues paid DALPA thugs turned over to the ATL chief pilots. Evidence that supposedly showed violations of law and company policy. DPA didn't cry about someone turning over evidence, DPA simply said look at their evidence and you'll see we are totally within our rights. And of course, DPA was right and the DALPA thugs were wrong.

You mean like your DALPA thugs that used union dues to pay themselves to disrupt the free speech rights of Delta pilots? You're right...that was stooping as low as it gets.

You're unreachable, but I knew that going in. You're hoping beyond hope to impress your thug masters so you can stick your hand in that union dues honey pot. There's no redirection going on at all with me. Just stating the facts and you can't stand them.

I'm proud though that no matter how much thugs like you bait the DPA guys, they continue to act with class and dignity. Something you would know nothing about.

Carl

Carl and his irrepressible double-standard.

He's the Diet Coke of logic...no calories.

It's not a race. It's an effort to get a better contract. The failure of DPA to gather anywhere NEAR enough support to challenge ALPA early enough to not interfere with contract negotiations is harmful to Delta pilots.

Nowhere near as harmful as "educating" Delta pilots to see things through management's eyes before the contract survey comes out.

My prediction of DALPA's weak opener in Section 6 will do more to harm Delta pilots than anything imaginable. I pray that we can get the additional 25% DPA cards in place before DALPA can proffer that weak opener.

Carl

Glib quips are so much easier than stating facts and debating issues. ;)

Carl

I guess that depends on your point of view.

Agree!

My POV: We want the best contract possible, and unified pilot groups get better contracts than squabbling pilot groups.

What's your's?