As got to be flame and if its not.... There is not a doubt in my mind that your F9 co-workers will kick you in the face themselves

Seriously? That has got to be FB.

I'm a Delta guy, but if RAH is released and you guys strike, I will not only honor your picket line, but I'll walk it with you. I'll bet most pilots would agree with me, instead of this Roundup character.

Carl

Cooler heads? Not a chance. This is not a marriage it is rape and I will not fund some retirement fund for Teamsters which the dues paying members are not entitled to. It won't be much of a jumpseat war if the Embraers leave DEN and considering the vote and forced membership you can't scab a scab. Nope, not flame, just a statement of fact. I will support Heller if necessary and if you strike I'll fly for free to bust your union, just like your attempt to bust mine.

If you are such a billy badass.. Shut up or put your name out there...**Crickets** Didn't think so.. No Ballz.. Flame

Please call our jumpseat coordinator and let him know so he can school you a bit.

I'll second that.

Likewise Sir.

No matter who this jackass is. There will never be a day that I deny any F9 guy the jumpseat. 98% of you are very professional and are welcome in "OUR" J/S anytime!
PS-----> If you're the 2% that is not... You are welcome too!

PERIOD!

This guy probably does not even work at F9. No one in their right mind would do what he is saying. Pure flame bait.

Aren't anonymous message boards fun?

Newly joined screenname with 2 posts... I call BS on this guy.
I bet 5 bucks he isn't an F9 pilot.

Respectfully we voted and we won fair and square, don't be a sore loser, and at the same time We gotta be classy and not gloat that's not cool. If anything all egos aside we got the perfect opportunity staring us in the face! Don't get caught in the hype all this mudslinging and bickering does nothing but make us look stupid and not get what we deserve and worked hard for. Decent wage, quality of life, etc.... If We stand our ground we can really Profit. Trust BB and Co are scheming on a way for us to self destruct let's not give them that opportunity. If you're upset about the election that's cool but instead of chest thumping and keyboard commando-ism lets focus our anger on the Real cause of our woes...

That's just crazy. If not flamebait, I feel sorry for you.

That's your choice Roundup, but know this:

1. If you actually do scab, it will be a self-inflicted virus that you'll never cure. Just ask the two scabs during the Spirit strike.

2. If you actually do scab, you better hope F9 lasts the rest of your career, or won't mind working for the Amerijet's of the world.

3. Once your name is on a scab list, I would personally do everything I could to ensure you never work at my airline. Most pilots will do the same to you once you decide to scab.

Think real freaking hard dude.

Carl

Nope he’s not an F9 pilot. Maybe an FA, but he’s definitely not a pilot. Lucky for the RAH guys FA’s can’t deny them the jump seat.

Wow. A RAH pilot calling someone a "Scab". Pot, meet Kettle.

I sorta wish it was going to be "unicorns and butterflies" from this point forward, but I seriously doubt it.

I don't think that the native RAH IBT'ers (and many F9'ers) understand the events that have occurred since October of 2009 and their affect on the FAPA group.

In Oct 09, everyone was summoned to IND for discussions that were extremely premature and produced nothing.

After that came the long, drawn out process of the SLI.

I've said this before, but in January, the RAH IBT (most, if not all, former 747 officers or appointees) spent approximately 1 hour in the room at the first week long "negotiation" meeting in Dallas before declaring they would not meet with the other 3 unions at the same time.

It was a classic divide and conquer strategy but instead of making the IBT more accessable and trying to strike individual deals with each union, it actually united ALPA, UTU and FAPA against RAH IBT. The IBT initial proposal was insane by any standard, placing somewhere between 1,100 and 1,300 RAH pilots at the top with everyone else stapled. That set the tone for subsequent interactions.

In Febuary, we had "mediation" in Sarasota, scheduled to begin on a Monday and finishing on Friday. The RAH IBT told FAPA that they couldn't make it on Monday because it was Valentines Day weekend and one of their officers had a wedding anniversary, they actually laughed while saying this.

So IBT showed up on Tuesday, talked to the Mediator for a couple of hours over the period of a couple days and left early, on Thursday afternoon. The Mediator said, "They're on a whole different planet than the other 3 unions." The IBT modified their proposal to putting somewhere between 600 and 800 of their pilots on top (it might have been between 700 and 900, I don't recall exactly). They met with the other unions for approximately 1 hour that week.

Don't forget, we were all paying a portion of the fees, including the IBT membership or, more than likely, National was picking up the bill as 747/357 had no money at that point. I believe that the Mediator only charged us $22,000 for that week because he went home each night, so there was no per deim.

Now we're off to DCA for arbitration. That is a confrontational process no matter who is arbitrating what. The Arbitrator repeatedly urged all parties to make an attempt to negotiate an agreement as, "Whatever you come up with, it will be better than what I will decide."

The IBT showed NO interest in talking with any of the other unions.

FAPA has been accused of delaying the process at every opportunity, but the RAH IBT SME, Robert Mann, was SO wrong in so many facts and graphs, it took a couple of days just to cross examine him. He showed profits that were losses, losses that were profits, inverted graphs and was an extremely hostile witness. You had to drag every bit of information out of him and generally he wouldn't answer a question without a 5 to 10 minute dissertation.

So, we had to have a second round with the Arbitrator. I believe he was charging $35,000 a week for his "services" and could only fit our arbitrations in every other month - that was his delay.

We STILL had not heard from RAH Corporate or FAPA's case at the end of that period (I don't remember if that was a full week or not, I think it was shorter).

So, two months later we're back in DCA. The Arbitrator stated at the beginning of that session that we WOULD complete the arbitration in this session. FAPA actually had to shorten our case to meet his self imposed restriction (although at $35,000 a week, I don't know what his hurry was).

RAH IBT never reached out to any other union until we got in a tiff over LOA 39, then they started trying to peel ALPA and UTU off from our semi-alliance. To the best of my knowledge, it was too little, too late.

Then came the opinion and "award." ALPA, UTU, FAPA and Tier 3 pilots at RAH all thought they got screwed. Tier one and two RAH pilots were ecstatic, the award didn't follow any of Eischen's written opinion and they got more than they could have ever hoped for.

During the process, against the Arbitrator's order, RAH IBT released the final proposals. RAH IBT, in spite of the agreed upon process, filed for Single Carrier Status. They have acted in a completely self-serving manner, violated orders from the Arbitrator and every agreement made with the other unions.

Outside the rooms, they behaved in a very unprofessional manner (I guess the "no alcohol expenses" policy wasn't in effect at that time), were racist and misogynistic.

FAPA reached out to the 357 ExCo and IBT National to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement on representation, only to be rebuffed at every attempt.

So, now the IBT has won their election. Given the past attitudes and behavior, I have no idea why the IBT, Local 357 or any RAH pilot would expect any enthusiasm or cooperation from a single Frontier pilot. As someone said, "This isn't a marriage, it's a rape."

357's first point of discussion was how they were going to transfer FAPA's dues money to their general fund. That's $2.2 million of OUR pilot's dues to a union that has been so mismanaged that they have a whooping $300,000 in their coffers. They had to make an assessment just to pay a Negotiator.

Does it really seem reasonable to try to take our money to prop up a failing union? The primary reason to take our money is to keep FAPA from using that money to ensure the IBT doesn't sell Frontier pilots, individually or collectively, down the river.

It's going to be a long couple of years.

We're both looking at the argument through our own personal filters and we're just going to go round and round making more and more poorer and poorer analogies.

PM me and and we can sit and BS over few beers during a DEN overnight and hopefully have a enjoy a more coherent (my fault on muddying it up) and adult (ditto) conversation.

Just in case you missed it... Roundup called himself a Scab.

Look up the word SCAB as it relates to pilot unions and show me where RAH pilots flew struck work. And don't give me some twisted answer as to how you interpret the word SCAB in relation to RAH pilots to assuage your own personal bitterness.

Nicely put F9 319.

I won't cross your strike line or fly your planes, but if you were released to self help sometime in the next 3 to 4 years AND the President and Congress didn't order you back to work, right now we have separate CBA's and to strike on your behalf would be an illegal work action on F9 pilots part.

3 very knowledgable people, 1 Management, 1 IBT and a very experienced Arbitrator have laughed out loud when asked if they thought RAH IBT would either get a contract or be released from mediation in the next 3 years. The Arbitrator was the one that said, in this economic environment there is not a chance in a million that the Government would allow ANY airline to strike (Amerijet really isn't a very good example of an "airline").

I feel bad for the vast majority of the great guys and gals that are line pilots at native RAH, you have been and are still being fed very biased and inaccurate information.

Did DS lead negotiations on contract 2003? If so, why is he running contract 2015 negotiations?

Airdale has been furloughed and is a hothead pilot we "have". Ignore 98% of what he says. He's a former Colganite who hoped to find greener pastures over here and came in at the wrong time. He's one of our 1%'ers.

I don't recall you are any of your peers walking a picket line while on strike. You lack the courage and or conviction to sacrifice yourself to your own cause yet criticize those who won't sacrifice themselves for that same cause. Peace.

While we're talking about strikes, I doubt any F9 pilot would fly struck work. My understanding is that the striking group determines what constitutes "struck work". Can they do that without limitation? When Comair went on strike, could they say that any flight between, say, CVG and MEM was struck work if they flew that route once a day while Delta did it 4 times? I ask because I wonder if IBT could (for argument's sake) say that DEN-RSW is "struck work" because they did it twice a week in the E190 at one point.

Fill me in someone.

Jeff,

YOU have been the one fomenting divisiveness.
YOU have been the one who refused to talk.
YOU have been the one who pushed for separate but unequal.

To call us divisive is delusional at best and misleading at worst.

Probably not Jeff...just a hunch

I didn't say anything about walking a picket line. YX pilots came close but never struck. But then again, we didn't come in, paint our airplanes the colors of someone else, fly their routes and throw them out in the streets with our blessings. You deserve every headache you get and I hope you and your company fail. By the looks of things, that could soon be a reality. I for one will enjoy the show even more than both of you pathetic idiots arguing about who represents who.

strike... what a joke f9 will be separated or out of business loooong before any contract talks are released for a strike.

I'll fill you in, there are pilots at F9 who have flown struck work, there are also pilots at local357 who have crossed picket lines. A large percentage of dues paying ALPA pilots are on scab lists. Seriously, get educated. Find a complete scab list and go down the membership rolls of both unions. Anyway the definition of scab is really cute. The United pilots who flew Frontier airplanes in 1986 didn't get that title but they certainly earned it. When the clueless kids at Teamsters try to destroy my job, paybacks a mother. They strike and I'll fly for free.

Hopefully RAH sinks with them. If they dont at the same time they will follow within a few years after F9 burns all of the revs money.

If you're referring to FAPA's President, Jeff, he doesn't have an account on APC or FI. He is far too busy - trying to protect our pilots, talk WITH Management to the betterment of our pilots, talking to attorneys, attempting to talk with IBT National and Local 357, flying the line, raising a child and trying to live a life - to waste any of his time on APC, FI or even the FAPA message board, unless it's something very important (and I mean that for only the FAPA board).

He has never posted here or on FI, he may seem uncooperative at times but that's because the people he's dealing with don't know the whole picture. Jeff has been one of the best leaders in FAPA's history. I hope the other two know who they are without listing them here.

First, I would have thought it would have been misleading at best, delusional at worst.

Do you see more delusional behavior than misleading behavior?
Do you know more delusional people than people that are misleading?
Which condition do you find most amusing?

Please see post 56. Jeff wasn't even serving on the FAPA BoD:

> When divisiveness began fomenting.

> When the IBT refused to talk.

> When IBT pushed for together but unequal.

How did the female member of our Integration Committee respond to the misogyny of her fellow members? She's no pushover, so I can't imagine she took it well.

---------------------------------------------

I truly hope that one day we can be one happy family. Local 357 isn't perfect, but we recognized that last fall and made a huge first step in righting the ship. We'll have to prove it, but there is more than enough room for F9 pilots in our union.

She is definitely not a push over. I think she is very bright and "off the court" probably a fun and interesting person. At least the 2 worst guys were smart enough to not talk that way in front of her. She seems like a good sport, so the more benign comments she probably just shrugged off.

I also think she's good at the work and wants to keep doing it, so she might have put up with some comments that she normally would not let pass.

Just my thought. If I had women figured out, I'd be a millionaire teaching classes - not boring holes in the sky. (That's probably misogynistic)

Tell the Spirit Guys that.

Exactly.

I also seriously doubt BB and WH will ever actually let us walk. The FFD cash cow would be shot and killed if we got out the door. It's a battle of wills and if we can hold our ranks and get to that point they will cave. Don't fall for the games and intimidation tactics.

I hope your NC is not using Spirit as an example.

They have a very high profit margin, and they were shooting for Jetblue rates (sound familiar). They did go on strike, and achieved....

Airbus pay rates (up a 321 no less) that are less than jetblue's 190 rates.

Yikes.

And you guys are going to strike in 2013 for jet blue 190 rates in your (frontier's?) 190?

Why are we talking about a strike, again?

Very simple question here zoooropa:

Are the pay rates at Spirit (that are below jetblue 190 rates) higher after the strike, or the same as before the strike?

Carl