Nice flip. That what people do when they have no argument.........buck, wing and flip. Isn't there a training class in Herndon for that ?

I've heard if you pass that one, then you're invited to the "duck, dodge and hide" course.

There's no "hate" in me as I'm happier now away from ALPA then the decades of worthlessness within it. The point isn't the deficiencies of the APA (there are plenty). The question is, can a pilot group do just AS GOOD with in-house representation or another union as opposed to ALPA ?

The answer is a resounding YES !

The APA has done no worse for AA pilots then ALPA has for others (currently the best scope out there and cheaper too !) and SWA pilots and UPS have done just fine without the bloated overpaid and underperformers in Herndon, but if a pilot group wants to pay more money for equal or worse results, that's their choice and destiny, but it's especially sad with all the current information and repeated demonstrations of lack of ability ALPA has out there now as opposed those stuck with them for the last 10-40 years.

In America, everyone is free to become a sap as well as make an INFORMED choice to avoid becoming one.

This is of no surprise. ALPA is a business first and protects ITS interest first. When you have the grossly overpaid and bloated structure they have, unfortunately capitualation occurs much earlier in the process then it should.

Those that know this and THEN willingly sign on deserve what they get.

*chuckle*

Well, I've only had about 24 years experience with ALPA, including several contracts and another half dozen negotiating rounds for amendments to that contract.

Perhaps you can enlighten me Yoda ?

24 years? You're just tearing it up!

My ALPA card.......how'd you guess ?

They even botched my final bill and tried to milk me for extra dues not owed. From my experience, their clumsiness runs across all departments. I'd be tickled if the TWA pilots won their suit (like the UAL pilots). Doubling your dues will help avoid pay cuts below $400,000 for big tuna's though.

Why not, as they're certainly worth it, yes?

IMO, I think they'll wait till after any Jet Blue vote though........no sense in scaring them off before then. ;)

Do you have a website to get up to date info on the proceedings?

The UAL pilots didn't win. There was a settlement that paid them about 20 cents per dollar of their claim.

I heard that the lead plaintiff in the TWA case didn't even show for court...:confused:

Oh yawn... ALPA ruined your life... Gloom, despair, and agony on me....

A lit overdramatic aren't we ?

No, they didn't ruin my life (but also improved it not at all) and you know what ? They won't ruin Jet Blue if they're foolish enough to join ALPA, but equal performance may be obtained for less money. When it comes to the best bang for your buck, ALPA is a poor investment. I must say though, the depth of your indoctrination is impressive.

Perhaps a promotion is in order ?

At any rate, this tit-for-tat is becoming as pointless as ALPA. Let's agree you feel they have value above all other bargaining representatives and I feel they've become an obsolete, excessively bloated, self-serving profit entity whose performance and influence can be equaled or bettered for less $$$.

I can live with that and am thrilled I no longer have to support it.

You really need a new set of talking points, because Herndon sent you a bad set. SWAPA, APA, IPA and the IBT all lobbied for more restrictive rules. ALPA was in bed with the industry and had a bunch of Congressmen, Senators and their staffers who busted their cans to get us something better REALLY steamed.

ALPA came to the party kicking and screaming only after they were forced to by the other groups demanding something better.