View Poll Results: Would you give up your CBA for a 'PEA'?
Yes, I'd rather have an individual 'pilot employment agreement'
15
26.79%
No, I would stick with my CBA.
41
73.21%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll
JetBlue Union Vote; trade your CBA for 'PEA'?
07-27-2011, 11:40 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by Flyby1206
Oh yea, we know ALPA is just stellar at merger representation...
When you say "ALPA" is stellar, remember it is the Individual MEC that handles mergers.
The Individual Airline MEC forms a Merger Committee consisting of Pilots from that specific Airline. They are the ones who do the deal, or agree to Arbitration.
They might use ALPA National resources, Lawyers, Financial analysts etc, but it is up to the Individual Pilot group on how they proceed to success or failure.
Negotiations works the same way. ALPA National doesn't negotiate contracts.
The Individual MEC Negotiating Committee Does. ALPA National provides assistance. Again, Lawyers, Financial Analysts, ERISA experts. Again it is up to the individual Pilot group to succeed or fail.
ALPA National doesn't Ratify or Reject contracts. The individual Pilot group does. The ALPA President does sign a newly ratified Contract, along with the Local MEC Chairman and Negotiating Committee Chairman.
So what you should really say is The XYZ MEC is stellar (or not)
Last edited by RedeyeAV8r; 07-27-2011 at 11:51 AM.
07-27-2011, 06:48 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
I think a little clarification is needed.
When you say "ALPA" is stellar, remember it is the Individual MEC that handles mergers.
The Individual Airline MEC forms a Merger Committee consisting of Pilots from that specific Airline. They are the ones who do the deal, or agree to Arbitration.
They might use ALPA National resources, Lawyers, Financial analysts etc, but it is up to the Individual Pilot group on how they proceed to success or failure.
Negotiations works the same way. ALPA National doesn't negotiate contracts.
The Individual MEC Negotiating Committee Does. ALPA National provides assistance. Again, Lawyers, Financial Analysts, ERISA experts. Again it is up to the individual Pilot group to succeed or fail.
ALPA National doesn't Ratify or Reject contracts. The individual Pilot group does. The ALPA President does sign a newly ratified Contract, along with the Local MEC Chairman and Negotiating Committee Chairman.
So what you should really say is The XYZ MEC is stellar (or not)
When you say "ALPA" is stellar, remember it is the Individual MEC that handles mergers.
The Individual Airline MEC forms a Merger Committee consisting of Pilots from that specific Airline. They are the ones who do the deal, or agree to Arbitration.
They might use ALPA National resources, Lawyers, Financial analysts etc, but it is up to the Individual Pilot group on how they proceed to success or failure.
Negotiations works the same way. ALPA National doesn't negotiate contracts.
The Individual MEC Negotiating Committee Does. ALPA National provides assistance. Again, Lawyers, Financial Analysts, ERISA experts. Again it is up to the individual Pilot group to succeed or fail.
ALPA National doesn't Ratify or Reject contracts. The individual Pilot group does. The ALPA President does sign a newly ratified Contract, along with the Local MEC Chairman and Negotiating Committee Chairman.
So what you should really say is The XYZ MEC is stellar (or not)
This is what the ALPA haters need to get. It will be JB pilots behind the wheel. More than likely most of the same that are on or interested in PVC positions. OUR GUYS! our negotiation. We will finally have a leagal position instead of a spot at the hand out line.
07-27-2011, 08:59 PM
#23
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Forget being an ALPA-hater for one minute and consider this: If B6 elects to join ALPA, then B6 is acquired or merged with another airline, they could be worse off than if they were non-affiliated. Check out how TWA pilots were not only abandoned when AA bought them, but actually harmed by ALPA during the integration process. Instead of representing TWA ALPA pilots and assisting them in getting a fair deal with seniority, they subverted the integration process and cut a secret deal with APA & AA management, in exchange for not suing and agreeing to join ALPA when it was over. Net gain= 8,400 pilots, and 13,000 overall dues-paying members. TWA pilots just won a lawsuit vs. ALPA, and will probably collect damages.
In two other instances, Alaska buying JetAmerica and TexasAir acquiring PeoplExpress, the pilot group of the acquired airline got a much better, more equitable seniority integration than if they had been unionized. I firmly believe ALPA is using scare tactics on B6 pilots, telling them if they don't join a union, they'll be 'left out in the cold' if acquired. The RLA has protections for that, and it simply isn't true.
In two other instances, Alaska buying JetAmerica and TexasAir acquiring PeoplExpress, the pilot group of the acquired airline got a much better, more equitable seniority integration than if they had been unionized. I firmly believe ALPA is using scare tactics on B6 pilots, telling them if they don't join a union, they'll be 'left out in the cold' if acquired. The RLA has protections for that, and it simply isn't true.
07-28-2011, 03:07 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Passed out in my hammock
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by B757200ER
Forget being an ALPA-hater for one minute and consider this: If B6 elects to join ALPA, then B6 is acquired or merged with another airline, they could be worse off than if they were non-affiliated. Check out how TWA pilots were not only abandoned when AA bought them, but actually harmed by ALPA during the integration process. Instead of representing TWA ALPA pilots and assisting them in getting a fair deal with seniority, they subverted the integration process and cut a secret deal with APA & AA management, in exchange for not suing and agreeing to join ALPA when it was over. Net gain= 8,400 pilots, and 13,000 overall dues-paying members. TWA pilots just won a lawsuit vs. ALPA, and will probably collect damages.
In two other instances, Alaska buying JetAmerica and TexasAir acquiring PeoplExpress, the pilot group of the acquired airline got a much better, more equitable seniority integration than if they had been unionized. I firmly believe ALPA is using scare tactics on B6 pilots, telling them if they don't join a union, they'll be 'left out in the cold' if acquired. The RLA has protections for that, and it simply isn't true.
In two other instances, Alaska buying JetAmerica and TexasAir acquiring PeoplExpress, the pilot group of the acquired airline got a much better, more equitable seniority integration than if they had been unionized. I firmly believe ALPA is using scare tactics on B6 pilots, telling them if they don't join a union, they'll be 'left out in the cold' if acquired. The RLA has protections for that, and it simply isn't true.
07-28-2011, 08:54 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
Originally Posted by B757200ER
Forget being an ALPA-hater for one minute and consider this: If B6 elects to join ALPA, then B6 is acquired or merged with another airline, they could be worse off than if they were non-affiliated. Check out how TWA pilots were not only abandoned when AA bought them, but actually harmed by ALPA during the integration process. Instead of representing TWA ALPA pilots and assisting them in getting a fair deal with seniority, they subverted the integration process and cut a secret deal with APA & AA management, in exchange for not suing and agreeing to join ALPA when it was over. Net gain= 8,400 pilots, and 13,000 overall dues-paying members. TWA pilots just won a lawsuit vs. ALPA, and will probably collect damages.
In two other instances, Alaska buying JetAmerica and TexasAir acquiring PeoplExpress, the pilot group of the acquired airline got a much better, more equitable seniority integration than if they had been unionized. I firmly believe ALPA is using scare tactics on B6 pilots, telling them if they don't join a union, they'll be 'left out in the cold' if acquired. The RLA has protections for that, and it simply isn't true.
In two other instances, Alaska buying JetAmerica and TexasAir acquiring PeoplExpress, the pilot group of the acquired airline got a much better, more equitable seniority integration than if they had been unionized. I firmly believe ALPA is using scare tactics on B6 pilots, telling them if they don't join a union, they'll be 'left out in the cold' if acquired. The RLA has protections for that, and it simply isn't true.
2000000/2300=869.5 dollars per pilot. Because we cannot dispute jointly. That is in the PEA.
We also have no leagal standing to improve any of the formentioned issues like retirment, healthcare, disability ect. The LAW will not allow us to do so.
These are not scare tactics they are the facts. Scare tactics are when the company says ALPA airlines all go bankrupt, or furlough, or cap your pay. Those are scare tactics. The RLA and Mc/Bond only protect against single carrier status.
Just like the situation with SWA and AT(now guatalupe holdings) Do you think that it's a coinsidence that there has not been a single carrier status filed? SWAPA has given the AT pilots a very simple ultimatum. Take what we're offering or be slowly disolved. Why are the AT pilots in this situation? Because they lack specific language! WE HAVE NO LANGUAGE!
07-28-2011, 05:41 PM
#27
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,599
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
I think a little clarification is needed.
When you say "ALPA" is stellar, remember it is the Individual MEC that handles mergers.
The Individual Airline MEC forms a Merger Committee consisting of Pilots from that specific Airline. They are the ones who do the deal, or agree to Arbitration.
They might use ALPA National resources, Lawyers, Financial analysts etc, but it is up to the Individual Pilot group on how they proceed to success or failure.
Negotiations works the same way. ALPA National doesn't negotiate contracts.
The Individual MEC Negotiating Committee Does. ALPA National provides assistance. Again, Lawyers, Financial Analysts, ERISA experts. Again it is up to the individual Pilot group to succeed or fail.
ALPA National doesn't Ratify or Reject contracts. The individual Pilot group does. The ALPA President does sign a newly ratified Contract, along with the Local MEC Chairman and Negotiating Committee Chairman.
So what you should really say is The XYZ MEC is stellar (or not)
When you say "ALPA" is stellar, remember it is the Individual MEC that handles mergers.
The Individual Airline MEC forms a Merger Committee consisting of Pilots from that specific Airline. They are the ones who do the deal, or agree to Arbitration.
They might use ALPA National resources, Lawyers, Financial analysts etc, but it is up to the Individual Pilot group on how they proceed to success or failure.
Negotiations works the same way. ALPA National doesn't negotiate contracts.
The Individual MEC Negotiating Committee Does. ALPA National provides assistance. Again, Lawyers, Financial Analysts, ERISA experts. Again it is up to the individual Pilot group to succeed or fail.
ALPA National doesn't Ratify or Reject contracts. The individual Pilot group does. The ALPA President does sign a newly ratified Contract, along with the Local MEC Chairman and Negotiating Committee Chairman.
So what you should really say is The XYZ MEC is stellar (or not)
But on the other hand, I just dont have faith in the concept of a local MEC running the show. Those involved are typically senior and willing to eat their young. Yes, I know anyone can get involved with the union, but a newhire isnt going to be a MEC Chairman, and probably wont be elected LEC rep either.
I would be much more interested in ALPA if they had a standardized national contract for all ALPA carriers and equip. The wild differences between ALPA carriers flying the same equip is what scares me. I dont want to sidetrack this thread, but a NSL would be necessary as well. Pipe dreams I know...
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