As a UAL pilot flying out of Denver, this has been nothing short of ridiculous. Myself, along with most UAL guys I know view the Frontier guys as Anti-Union Slime. I understand that ISL’s don’t make anyone happy. Our guys and the CAL guys are scared $#!tless about what those results might be for us. That being said….Frontier Pilots……you had your shot with an Arbitrator and now it’s OVER!

Now you guys accepted concessions. Any level of concessions…..Really?!! All of us in the industry are trying to regain some ground here in our CBA’s and you guys get into bed with Bedford, in hopes of overturning a battle you lost in your arbitration?!!

And on top of that, you’re now making a concerted effort to be Non-Members in the Union and you’re messing with the Union Members for wearing their Union Lanyards?!!!

Remember Frontier pilots, YOU are writing your own chapter in history right now. You’re not fooling any of us. We will always know who you are.

Imagine that in your situation, the arbitrator ratioed your wide body captains with the narrow body captains at Continental, and the narrow body captains at UA with the wide body FOs at CO. As a result, when when the fence came down, the next decade would consist of nothing but Continental FO's upgrading ahead of United FOs, and Continental narrow body captains coming over ahead of your wide body captains (who would just move backwards in seniority). For 10-15 years. Would you take an offer to go back to being on your own?

I don't know why you'd be scared $#!tless - the most you'll lose in your situation is a few percentage points. My retirement position lost 1500%, and my bidding seniority position will decline for a decade or two after the fence comes down. Admittedly, there's a lot leaving on the RAH side, so perhaps it will only be a 500-1000% loss when all is said and done. Thank God for the fence and no bump / no flush, or I'd be 15 years just to get back to the seat I'm in now, with a 45% pay cut in the meantime. What kind of integration with Continental would it take for you to have that scenario?


That's the pot calling the kettle black. If I could hold captain at United with my longevity (NOT!), I'd be making $5 an hour less than what I'm making now at the concessionary rates. How long since YOU have been in bankruptcy? Why the heck didn't your union negotiate snap-backs like ours did? You also have to fight to get back your work rules too, which we don't.

The majority of pilots here ARE union members, just not the union that you want us to join. The IBT made a concerted effort to make sure that we couldn't be fairly represented, in spite of our efforts to avoid that. I know you guys at UAL are very pro-union, but would you feel the same if your pilots' interests were outvoted by the Continental guys by 3 to 1, and you had everything they wanted, and they had NOTHING that you wanted? Luckily for you, your management furloughed and right-sized to make it a marriage of equals, which avoided that whole scenario. Count yourselves lucky for that.

Regarding the lanyards, there are very few pilots doing that. I'm not sure if you understand the full reasons behind the few that do that, with regards to the IBT stripping us of any chance at fair representation. I'm trying to think of an equivalent in your integration, but I can't come up with one.

TDawg, as you can no doubt read for yourself, FP can't seem to figure out that you are not IBT. He also conveniently forgets how they proosed to hose the other pilots in THEIR proposed integration.

He also forgets that the arbitrators ruling clearly stated that IBT is the representative for all RAH Holdings pilots. Including F9.

He closes with the assertion that IBT "stripped" them of any chance of fair representation. While conveniently not mentioning that they refused to join the IBT, ergo as non members they could not run for office. Had they put up candidates; who knows? It's just easier to do nothing, sit back and blame someone else for one's own actions. Or lack thereof.

Did he mention that they (the RAH pilots) elected a Midwest Express guy?

Thought not.

You seem to have hit him where it hurts. With the truth.

I fully believe he's with UA. What makes you think otherwise?

As did RAH pilots to everyone else.


It was IBT's actions at the outset that made it clear they had no interest in representing us (i.e. their unwillingness to provide a representation structure that would adequately represent us). Something close to 100% of your pilots voted IBT, so only a fool would think that a Frontier pilots would have a chance in getting fair representation.

Faultpush....there is one and only one reason why the RPC had no shot at being voted in...timing. I didn't even hear about this until a few weeks before the election opened...nor did any of our pilots. If you were serious about this and us all working together, this would have been brought to our attention months before the election opened. A little education would've gone a long way. The path this took seemed nothing short of shady.

We knew our one seniority list verbiage was rock solid; apparently your leadership felt otherwise as no talk of the RPC from F9 was even mentioned until the mediator forced the joint list. A few months prior and we're probably looking at a different situation today....though it won't matter here shortly as we will all get our wish and be separate...we will keep our profits on our FFD side and have to support F9's DEN losses.

Ka-CHING!!! We have a winner!

The idea was brought to the EXCO's attention a long time before the election. It was only brought to the pilots' attention when a deal couldn't be reached.

I should have mentioned that IBT won't let us join IBT and remain members of FAPA. Given all that FAPA's done for us and how little IBT has, I'm not inclined to trade the greater for the lesser.

The last time I checked, you can only be a member of one union. :rolleyes:

Funny how IBT is administering your contract on the IBT's dime. Time to start paying the piper.