While I disagree with what they're saying, I also disagree with the suggestion that they're either idiots or trolls. I know James No Brakes well enough from his posts alone, I believe, to stand behind the fact that he is neither.

I don't agree with their position but I also firmly believe in Voltaires sentiment that I may not agree with what they have to say, but will defend to the death their right to say it.

 

That was my point, the cockpit door doesn't get opened for any reason, whatsoever, which is why I made the somewhat sarcastic statement about the S&W .500 magnum. If you have a gun, you are assuming the door is going to be opened or breeched, whether it's your actions or someone else. If there is actually a situation where a breech is imminent, it'd be a far better idea to land that airliner as if there was an on-board fire, because even if you have a gun, as you and JB say, the attacker could be a super-trained secret-cell terrorist that got through TSA and the rampers, and he's going to make mince-meat of the CA and FO, so they need to put the plane on the ground NOW rather than try and take on the attacker, lest they gain control of the plane and it gets used as a weapon against even more people. Again, I don't see guns in the cockpit as causing an additional safety problem, I just see them as not reducing any possible problems and not being worth it for anyone to spend any money on. Guns may be cheap, but a procurement plan, officer in charge of it, distribution, maintenance, audits and other things to make sure the program is actually running and not stashing $$$ somewhere or being run inefficiently is going to cost even more money, and it's just more we don't need. Guys with box-cutters aren't going to get the door open, so we don't need the government to buy guns because of that. Let CCW holders bring whatever gun they want. It's not like a large gun is going to fit in the cockpit anyway.

 

What I find so amusing is the people who disagree with the FFDO program have to be maligned. If the United States was a country really interested in saving lives they would invest heavily in public transportation so as too discourage driving. They would then be able to raise the standard of the driving test. I only mention this because the FFDO program is not a bad thing its just a low priority item on a list of important ones. When you have school districts that are firing teachers that means this country can not afford to fund a exploratory program like the FFDO with its usefulness in question.

 

Heres the dealio

1. Our govt is broke. They apparently can't (or have difficulty) funding the FFDO program right now. "National security is at stake" maybe so, but the same US Govt is parking battleships and grounding FIGHTER SQUADRONS. So.....

2. The program in my opinion is important and valid

3. See Point-1.

4. Maybe someone can come up with a tax write off for this, if the pilots fund everything themselves. Maybe ALPA can exit the loosing argument for more funds and approach this from a different angle such as tax write offs

5. See Point-1

 

Airliners used by terrorists to attack America prior to FFDO program: 4
Airliners used by terrorists after FFDO program: 0

Any more questions?

 

Airliners used to attack America thwarted by a pilot with a gun= 0

 

Also I will add if the only people gaining access to flight deck are highly trained terrorists and FFDO's are not highly trained it follows that the FFDO is unlikely to prevent the mythical attack. Therefore these funds that are spent on FFDO program could be spent elsewhere.

 

And if the terrorists used guns and had the ability to break into a reinforced cockpit door, that would make sense.

 

One did. Blew a hole right through an A320 cockpit.


You closed the barn doors when the horses already left.

 

Another thing these FFDOs all wear eye and hearing protection when firing in New Mexico. Their brief to me is 'I defend, you fly.' Totally unrealistic.

Where's our non-FFDO pilot training? You know, flying with a gun going off. At a gun range, I had a SW .40 go off 24" from my head when I had removed my hearing protection. My fault, guy in next stall didnt know and he let loose 3 shots. I was stunned, my ears ringing, and I was shocked a little. Now I know better. But imagine a non-gun pilot in the cockpit with his ears ringing and probably in shock (some pilots have never fired a gun, never been to a range). Good luck with that one. Bet you 50 bucks their reflex will be to duck and cover their ears. Not fly and descend. Not until the initial shock wears off. Human psychology for non-gun people. You'd be a fool to expect a different reaction. I've fired a gun plenty of times with first-timers. Even with hearing protection, the first time they are shocked at how loud it is and big time flinch with a gun going off.

Good luck on that one. Of course, theres no training preparing the non-FFDO pilots on what to expect. All these pilots are told is let the pilot with the gun do his thing.