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-   -   Kirby's New Message (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/100283-kirbys-new-message.html)

Firsttimeflyer 03-01-2017 03:05 PM

I honestly have a hard time believing the max will be that much more efficient for the extra $$$. Especially when you take a look at the "new" cockpit. Based on the pics I've seen it's just a prettier shade of lipstick.

Bring on the new 321NEOs!

webecheck 03-01-2017 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by Firsttimeflyer (Post 2311752)
I honestly have a hard time believing the max will be that much more efficient for the extra $$$. Especially when you take a look at the "new" cockpit. Based on the pics I've seen it's just a prettier shade of lipstick.

Bring on the new 321NEOs!

14% at cruise. Just toured the max production line in Renton. It's essentially the same thing, just more fuel savings. If you do the math, which isn't too hard to figure out, you can see what kind of cost savings it will generate. I fly the plane, recently suffered a BOS-SFO leg, but it doesn't bother me all that much....although I do plan to bid off by the end of the year. 14% is significant enough to make the purchase I guess. I did the math and can see why.

pilotgolfer 03-01-2017 07:33 PM


Originally Posted by webecheck (Post 2311940)
14% at cruise. Just toured the max production line in Renton. It's essentially the same thing, just more fuel savings. If you do the math, which isn't too hard to figure out, you can see what kind of cost savings it will generate. I fly the plane, recently suffered a BOS-SFO leg, but it doesn't bother me all that much....although I do plan to bid off by the end of the year. 14% is significant enough to make the purchase I guess. I did the math and can see why.

At least you can get up and stretch the legs when they are adding fuel in MSP.

Firsttimeflyer 03-01-2017 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by webecheck (Post 2311940)
14% at cruise. Just toured the max production line in Renton. It's essentially the same thing, just more fuel savings. If you do the math, which isn't too hard to figure out, you can see what kind of cost savings it will generate. I fly the plane, recently suffered a BOS-SFO leg, but it doesn't bother me all that much....although I do plan to bid off by the end of the year. 14% is significant enough to make the purchase I guess. I did the math and can see why.

On paper looks great. But at what true cost and what true fuel efficiency. I fly the guppy too and it isn't all it is said to be. Same goes for any airplane I guess. I ran some numbers and see what you are saying if that is the projected increase over current numbers. Now it would be interesting to know the actual price difference for a NG vs MAX for United and see what timeframe it will take at current fuel prices with minor fuel price increases over the next 8 years to make up the difference and get in the black.

Probe 03-01-2017 09:19 PM


Originally Posted by webecheck (Post 2311940)
14% at cruise. Just toured the max production line in Renton. It's essentially the same thing, just more fuel savings. If you do the math, which isn't too hard to figure out, you can see what kind of cost savings it will generate. I fly the plane, recently suffered a BOS-SFO leg, but it doesn't bother me all that much....although I do plan to bid off by the end of the year. 14% is significant enough to make the purchase I guess. I did the math and can see why.

Several months ago their was an article about the new CFM LEAP missing its fuel efficiency targets. 1-2 pct on the version for the NEO. 4-5 pct for the MAX version. They thought they would eventually recoup the 1-2 pct for the NEO, but that the smaller fan MAX version the 4-5 pct miss was unreachable.

One more reason to buy NEO's, in addition to being able to eat off a table like a human, having some semblance of hearing remaining into your 50's, and not having the unbearable humiliation of having to fly something called a Guppy for a living.

Regularguy 03-02-2017 01:46 AM


Originally Posted by Probe (Post 2311993)
...and not having the unbearable humiliation of having to fly something called a Guppy for a living.

No you can fly something called "fifi" instead.


http://globerove.com/wp-content/uplo...te-de-pelo.jpg

Or maybe...


http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73...075305a320.jpg

SpecialTracking 03-02-2017 02:40 AM

With cute little green frog stickers adorning the cockpit.

gettinbumped 03-02-2017 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by Grumble (Post 2311496)
We're not adding any 50 seaters, it's just shifting. It's a net zero to the current fleet plan. Would you rather buy 65 737's we don't currently need and start losing money?

They're also going to finally start using them the way we're supposed to... on smaller cities that in no way support mainline flying. Yet. Finally ditching the stupidity of flying RJs and -8's between major hubs.

The sky isn't falling, I'm optimistic for the time being. Lot of smaller towns being added to pump passenger traffic into the system.

I agree the sky isn't falling, but the 65 RJ's will be 65 50-seaters that were originally supposed to be parked and indirectly subbed out with 737-700's. Maybe a good solid financial move by the company, but will definitely stunt mainline growth from what was in the plan 6 months ago.

Al Czervik 03-02-2017 07:12 AM


Originally Posted by RJDio (Post 2311657)
I hope that's the true reason for the deferment. I wonder what the break even point is on a NG vs MAX though? I remember Dal years ago stating the break even point of a used MD90 (price tag +fuel) vs a new 737 NG (price tag+fuel) was something like 20 years. In other words it would take 20 years in added fuel costs from the MD to equal the bigger price tag of the new guppy. I wonder how many more millions of $ the MAX is than the last of the NG's.

Kirby loves RJ's

-an American pilot

Boeing Aviator 03-02-2017 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 2312167)
Kirby loves RJ's

-an American pilot

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1402...footsteps.html


I'll take Kirby in a NY second over the that ego maniac - grossly incompetent Smisek. We have a good scope clause (industry's best) in our current contact. I agree it's going to be difficult negotiating against Kirby. But with solid union leadership, unified pilot group, industry profits and industry pattern bargaining, I think will fare well.

Rather have a well run very profitable airline with the very best hubs and network in the industry vs a poorly run airline squandering away its customer base and just barely keeping its head above the water.


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