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Originally Posted by nopac6
(Post 2375129)
Obviously, by showing up month after month and working under this contract, you already have an informed enough opinion to fill out the survey. Nobody's said otherwise. But Andy saying he couldn't focus for longer than 10 minutes on the comparison document because there were "too many numbers" seems lame. If that constitutes "virtue shaming" then I'm profoundly sorry.
Originally Posted by Andy
(Post 2374380)
I spent 10 minutes looking at it and didn't make it through very far. I wish there had been a Cliff Notes version highlighting those areas where we're behind our peers.
You're old enough to remember Cliff Notes so I don't need to explain that to you. The comparison guide is a nice document, but it is quite a tome for an initial contract survey. I would have preferred something shorter that hit on the items (specifically non-pay) where we're behind our peers. |
Originally Posted by Andy
(Post 2375135)
I never mentioned "too many numbers". Exact quote:
You're old enough to remember Cliff Notes so I don't need to explain that to you. The comparison guide is a nice document, but it is quite a tome for an initial contract survey. I would have preferred something shorter that hit on the items (specifically non-pay) where we're behind our peers. Here's the thing Andy, the 86 page document IS the cliff-notes version. It's not like it's 86 pages of text, it's mostly tables and graphs. It's a SUMMARY of where we're ahead and where we're behind. |
Originally Posted by nopac6
(Post 2375146)
I was referring to your "too much detail for my miniscule cranium to absorb in one sitting" comment.
Here's the thing Andy, the 86 page document IS the cliff-notes version. It's not like it's 86 pages of text, it's mostly tables and graphs. It's a SUMMARY of where we're ahead and where we're behind. If 9 pages of 'days off' was the Cliff Notes, I cringe at what the unabridged version looked like. |
Originally Posted by Andy
(Post 2375158)
It was self-deprecating humor. A swing and a miss.
If 9 pages of 'days off' was the Cliff Notes, I cringe at what the unabridged version looked like. Like was mentioned, you work under the thing, you know what you like and don't like. If that's the case does the comparison really matter? It was a pretty enlightening read to say the least. |
Contract Survey
The comparison documents MECs put together when preparing for negotiations is important to know before taking any contract survey. You may feel that your compensation or work rules are adequate until you find out that a certain part of your contract is the industry basement. I run into many pilots who simply don't know what they don't know and therefore are blissfully ignorant of their subpar contract. Just because you've worked under a contract, doesn't mean you know how it compares, even if you have an opinion of what needs to be improved. By how much should it be improved? What do the other airlines have in their contract? Or are your expectations a little too high? Can't know any of this unless you know a comprehensive contract comparison.
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Originally Posted by Nevjets
(Post 2375209)
The comparison documents MECs put together when preparing for negotiations is important to know before taking any contract survey. You may feel that your compensation or work rules are adequate until you find out that a certain part of your contract is the industry basement. I run into many pilots who simply don't know what they don't know and therefore are blissfully ignorant of their subpar contract. Just because you've worked under a contract, doesn't mean you know how it compares, even if you have an opinion of what needs to be improved. By how much should it be improved? What do the other airlines have in their contract? Or are your expectations a little too high? Can't know any of this unless you know a comprehensive contract comparison.
As you say, you have opinions about certain sections of the existing contract, but seeing what other pilot groups have been able to negotiate greatly broadens your perspective. I can't imagine going into negotiations without a comparison like this document. I'm grateful to the MEC for publishing it and wish more people would give it the attention it deserves. |
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