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Originally Posted by PA Slammer
(Post 2432148)
I got my answer.
I didn't get a line because I was "available for a 3 day block of reserve". The junior guy that got the line ended his Sep with 4 days of reserve and couldn't do 7 days straight of reserve. However now he starts the month with a 4 day trip and they won't be able to use him on the end of Sep reserve block because he'll need crewrest. They said they weren't responsible for last month when assigning lines! This sort of gobbeley-gook happens all the time. They look at a pilots potential need for crew rest and then that impacts what other pilots get visa-vi getting stuck on reserve. You may be senior to him, but because he may need crew rest he becomes more senior to you on the day the bids were run, therefore you lose your seniority. Same thing happens with vacation months. If a reserve has two weeks of vacation, he could get a line, and suddenly get artificially inflated seniority because PBS can't fill his schedule with enough R days to make it work with in the constraints programmed into it. There is truly a problem with PBS. It needs to be re-invented and re-named the seniority bidding system. Total overhaul required. |
How is the fact that PBS is not a true seniority based system rectified with 20-C-4-a "Pilots shall be awarded a schedule within their Category in accordance with their seniority" ?
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Originally Posted by rv8builder
(Post 2432223)
How is the fact that PBS is not a true seniority based system rectified with 20-C-4-a "Pilots shall be awarded a schedule within their Category in accordance with their seniority" ?
Because ALPA traded away the intrinsic value of your seniority. Your seniority (absolute seniority) is only guaranteed in vacancy bidding, displacement bidding, vacation bidding, and furlough. 20-C-4-a is only the starting point, not the ending point of the discussion. The horse-trading that went on to bring PBS onto property was done so because management wanted it, and management found a way to get ALPA to the table. They put a value on it, ALPA agreed to the value, but management got ALPA's ultimate buy-in by giving the association a seat at the table as it relates to the PBS committee and the monthly scheduling run. Everything is a trade. A pilots monthly seniority (relating to schedule) is more than the value that ALPA thought it was. Your schedule determines both your quality of life and your monthly income. While not an issue for ALPA, it is an issue for an individual dues paying member in good standing. Individually, pilots are thrown under the bus every month. Collectively, our pilots are represented in the "process" because ALPA has a seat at the table. The value of your schedule for you is not the same value that the association places on it. It's not a bash of ALPA. It's just an explanation as to what it is, and why it is. PBS came into being because of concessions. The value of those concessions in switching from paper bids to management's staffing system is either fair or unfair. Depends on your perspective and experiences with PBS. |
Originally Posted by baseball
(Post 2432233)
Because there's more to the story....
Because ALPA traded away the intrinsic value of your seniority. Your seniority (absolute seniority) is only guaranteed in vacancy bidding, displacement bidding, vacation bidding, and furlough. 20-C-4-a is only the starting point, not the ending point of the discussion. The horse-trading that went on to bring PBS onto property was done so because management wanted it, and management found a way to get ALPA to the table. They put a value on it, ALPA agreed to the value, but management got ALPA's ultimate buy-in by giving the association a seat at the table as it relates to the PBS committee and the monthly scheduling run. Everything is a trade. A pilots monthly seniority (relating to schedule) is more than the value that ALPA thought it was. Your schedule determines both your quality of life and your monthly income. While not an issue for ALPA, it is an issue for an individual dues paying member in good standing. Individually, pilots are thrown under the bus every month. Collectively, our pilots are represented in the "process" because ALPA has a seat at the table. The value of your schedule for you is not the same value that the association places on it. It's not a bash of ALPA. It's just an explanation as to what it is, and why it is. PBS came into being because of concessions. The value of those concessions in switching from paper bids to management's staffing system is either fair or unfair. Depends on your perspective and experiences with PBS. just like scope...aka B scales |
Originally Posted by baseball
(Post 2432160)
This sort of gobbeley-gook happens all the time. They look at a pilots potential need for crew rest and then that impacts what other pilots get visa-vi getting stuck on reserve. You may be senior to him, but because he may need crew rest he becomes more senior to you on the day the bids were run, therefore you lose your seniority.
Same thing happens with vacation months. If a reserve has two weeks of vacation, he could get a line, and suddenly get artificially inflated seniority because PBS can't fill his schedule with enough R days to make it work with in the constraints programmed into it. There is truly a problem with PBS. It needs to be re-invented and re-named the seniority bidding system. Total overhaul required. |
(Bidding top 1/3 BES) Filed a dispute a few months ago. I bid for specific trips 1, 2, 3 and 4. All four pairings went to junior bidders and I got the "unable to give someone junior to you a legal line if you get this" BS on the reason report. It completely abrogates seniority, even when you bid appropriately.
The gline needs to go away. When pbs runs out of trips it should just go reserve from there on, or be allowed to award mixed reserve with trips sprinkled in. |
Originally Posted by PA Slammer
(Post 2432148)
I got my answer.
I didn't get a line because I was "available for a 3 day block of reserve". The junior guy that got the line ended his Sep with 4 days of reserve and couldn't do 7 days straight of reserve. However now he starts the month with a 4 day trip and they won't be able to use him on the end of Sep reserve block because he'll need crewrest. They said they weren't responsible for last month when assigning lines! I'm not that butthurt with how it turned out because the junior lines in my category really blow. I would however like the ability to pick up from open time because I have a very flexible schedule. Oh, and I hate short calls. No reply to my dispute yet, maybe that means I have a legit complaint. :cool: |
PBS can work, just not this system. If we care about QOL improvements, Jeppesen PBS will not be in our next contract.
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Originally Posted by webecheck
(Post 2432300)
So you got a reply within hours of filing the dispute?
I'm not that butthurt with how it turned out because the junior lines in my category really blow. I would however like the ability to pick up from open time because I have a very flexible schedule. Oh, and I hate short calls. No reply to my dispute yet, maybe that means I have a legit complaint. :cool: Every time I've had a crappy line I've been able to turn it into weekends off and high paying trips. Unfortunately the only way for me to get a line is by waiving everything. |
Took more like 8hrs. Pretty quick.
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