Recent history (past few years) has been GUM gets offered but rolled over to the next class if not taken voluntarily- have they been forcing it in recent classes?

here we go again with “forcing.” Guam is a base, just like any other. This weeks class had 3 Guam, but they all went prior to the 8 ball, so no “forcing” it.

Semantics. The post I was referring to claimed GUM was mostly going “involuntary”. In recent years the company has just rolled GUM vacancies from one BI class to the next until they got voluntary bids. I’m just curious if that had changed with the need to staff HND/CEB. Not trying to start a conversation on expectations, “fairness”, or “paying one’s dues”.

Seems like all "min" vacancies in class are getting filled. If there is "Min x" for GUM, at least x will get sent there thst class. Talking to a buddy who was a NH with GUM drops, it doesn't sound like a big deal because if someone truely doesn't want to go to Guam, they just decline to take the paid move and additional money that locks them into base and can bid 737 anywhere CONUS the next vacancy (for now at least).

Again, not saying it’s a big deal- just curious if it was being handled differently. If indeed all slots are getting filled without reaching the jr man, though, the only accurate answer would be “nobody knows”.

it may become a big deal if vacancy bids dry up. perfect storm of MAX drama and FAA drama is brewing …. Nothing indicates that this is a thing - at least not yet.

Only way I see that happening is if age 67 actually happens. As long as UA is losing 500 a year off the top, there will be vacancy bids.

Under the FO GUM awards are all CA awards, which new hires can't take unless they have 1000 121, so just because it wasn't the very bottom, doesn't mean it wasn't forced.

ok, well by that point, let’s say someone lives in Orlando, and they really want MCO. But there aren’t any. Then they get to their pick and they are “forced” into 757 EWR. Well, they aren’t making Captain in MCO any time soon , so they’re likely “forced” to commute to Newark for two years until their seat lock is up.

or how about the people at Delta who lived in Atlanta, got a plane that isn’t based there (A220), so are “forced” to commute to NY for a year until they’re allowed to bid a plane Atlanta has.

if you don’t want to be “forced” somewhere, then apply somewhere else after you start, or quit the profession, I guess. Or, just wait for a vacancy to open and bid out. Guam is 737 only, so you can bid to literally anywhere else.

I think you’re reading too much into the verbiage. For the sake of conversation, “forced” just means “involuntary”- meaning it was that individual’s only option. (Other than “apply somewhere else or quit”.) No one is saying involuntary awards are wrong or unfair- we understand how seniority works. It’s just an interesting reference point to know which seats are going involuntary at a given time. If you can remove the emotion you seem to attach to the word “forced” this conversation might make a lot more sense to you.

GUM isn't a siberian labor camp but it's not a base like any other.

Commuting 7,000 miles against your will is fundamentally different than 700.

Yet you knew it was a possibility when you took the job.

Let me guess, ...never been in the military?

And heck, there hasn't even been active hostilities there since 1952 when the last Japanese soldier discovered the war was over although he wasn't actually captured for another couple decades...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoichi_Yokoi

Of course, the UXO risk persists...

https://www.usace.army.mil/Portals/2.../Guam_MMRP.pdf

Do that many people really commute? It sounds like an awesome excuse to go live the island life for a year or two. I've been to Guam numerous times and I would consider it based on the unique experience it offers.

This is a temporary pause. That's it.
The only way vacancy bids stop is if passenger demand falls off. And there's no sign of that happening. But you can find plenty of pilots who will cry wolf about 'the music stopping' over and over again. Eventually they are right.
Look at the passenger numbers: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/passenger-volumes
It's pretty much up 10% from 2023. United has to grow in order to keep up with demand. If United stops growing, all airline ticket prices (not just United) will increase considerably in order to suppress demand growth.
On the same note, we need Boeing to keep building those POS guppies in order to keep up with demand.
The FAA can try to stop United growth and Boeing from building aircraft, but the public blowback will be untenable.

Ive seen more than one class drop paper with the word “forced” on it recently. I’ve been watching them the past several years, and it had never shown up until the contract was signed. I think people are equating “forced” Captain spots with “I don’t like this, so it’s forced” so they then annotate it for some reason. It seems to be a recent thing, and I’m not sure the reason for even putting it on there.

The "any base that you want, so long as it's in the eastern hemisphere" crew hasn't hit the line yet ... but yeah, I can imagine someone with family issues commuting for 2-3 months before swapping.

But I mean, who cares? Call it forced, involuntary, too junior to hold anything else- it all means the same thing. You’re acting like “forced” necessarily connotes unfairness or anger at the system. There’s no value attached to it, it just means the guy didn’t have a second choice. Happens all the time in aviation.

Your assumption that demand is unlimited and infinite is pretty gullible. Financing airplanes when pax demand is high is easy. When you have too many assets not so much. Bastian is a CEO who really gets this, preaches optimistic but measured, strategic growth. Not growth for the sake of growth, highly leveraging the assets before acquiring new ones. Unlike drag queen CEO, which thankfully is being somewhat impeded by Boeing (he’ll thank them later).

Long time reader, first time poster. Since these posts seem to get off track, here is my attempt to get back on topic. I'm looking to see if anyone who received CJO's early-mid March have recieved class dates yet or might have info on when to expect them? I beleive no classes May/June, but i'm just trying to set my own expectations for planning. I received a CJO on 23 March, and still waiting on the pee test info. Thanks for the help!

WAI Callbacks?
 

Wondering if anyone has heard back, or knows anyone who has heard back from meet & greets at the WAI conference? I know UAL has a temporary pause with class dates coming up, but was wondering if they are still actively hiring.

I believe the latest word is no classes May/June with a potential restart in July. Then one class per month Aug/Sept/Oct with the potential for 3 in November and 2 in December. But of course, take that with a huge grain of salt, since this is all likely to change, and I certainly don't have any more accurate info than anyone else on here :)

I received my class date about 40 days after my CJO, but this was before the pause in classes was announced, so your mileage may vary...

Like somebody mentioned over in the CJO pool thread, as far as us peons can tell, the current plan is actually to go back to a class every week after the pause. Obviously, that info is worth what you paid for it, but at least it's something.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/3786224-post1231.html

4 classes July - Oct, starting every Tuesday. 3 in Nov, 2 Dec

Now that's much better news 😊

I’m 41 years old, hoping to get EWR, sounds like I should be able to avoid Guam just because of my age and the way seniority in class goes. Got the CJO in March, no communication since other than the drug test are delayed.

What is the “8 ball?”

It's a United pilot tradition that goes back at least to the 90's: the 8 ball is a term of endearment for the most junior person in any given class. There's a ceremony one night during basic indoc week where the week's junior person is given a bowling ball-sized 8 ball and has to carry it with them everywhere they go. It's all in good fun with drinks and good cheer. When the next class comes along, the ball is passed on.

God save the ball!

God save the ball!!!

to expand a little bit, the eight ball, god save the ball, is the most junior seniority line pilot at United.

We want “god to save the ball” because as long as the ball isn’t furloughed, no one is furloughed.

HAHAHAH THAT IS AWESOME! Can’t wait to start.

I was today years old when I found this out. Love it!

I've noticed the last few drops haven't included SFO. Does anyone have any idea how long it would take to hold that base from BI?

Dookie

That's awesome, I didn't know that!

Now that I've headed down memory lane, I remember that there used to be some hijinks associated with the ball. There were some elaborate (and some pretty stupid) plots by other classes to steal the ball and hold it for ransom (usually a round of drinks, IIRC).

Being the 8 ball can be a serious responsibility though. If you're the ball in the last class before hiring stops, you might have to safeguard the 8 ball for years until the next class comes along.

It would be pretty quick, probably a matter of a few months, particularly if you're on the 737. SFO 737 is very junior and almost always has unfilled seats on vacancy bids.

If you a get 737 FO assignment in another base during BI, you can bid out of that base and over to SFO whenever there's a vacancy bid (which are running monthly now). Just for example, on the vacancy bid that closed 3/15 there were over a dozen unfilled seats on SFO 737 FO so even the most junior newhire could have held it.

Great! Thanks a bunch!

Dookie

Dumb question, but if you just want to change bases and you're in the same seat and equipment, wouldn't that be accomplished through a base trade as opposed to a vacancy bid? Or just submit both?

Not dumb at all! Just two ways of accomplishing the same thing. Never having done a base trade I'm not an expert but here's my understanding:

For a base trade, there has to be someone on the other side of the trade, i.e, one pilot swaps DEN to SFO and another swaps SFO to DEN. If you don't have a trading partner, the trade doesn't happen.

For a vacancy bid, nobody has to take the other side - you just lateral over the base you're bidding into on the vacancy bid and create a hole in the base you're leaving.

You missed the caveat for a base trade. Someone junior to you has to hold the BES to which you are trading, otherwise it won’t go through.

there is one more point to a base trade with the new contract. You must be able to hold the base you are trading too. You can’t trade into the plug.

this is true only if there are zero open spots (I.e. the base is full). If there are unfilled vacancies in the base, you can base trade in your example. Basically, the unfilled vacancy would be the “person” junior to you.

a small but important distinction.