Originally Posted by climb (Post 2602302)

^Easy. Block out only when you have everything done.

Originally Posted by Floyd (Post 2602075)

The company enjoys a pay and duty benefit with a :45 min report. Some are more than happy to oblige with a gitterdone at any cost attitude. Flight planning in the hotel room or van just masks the issue at hand. As mentioned, a thorough preflight consumes :45 min. Throw in a couple operational issues, a lengthy MEL and you can easily see that :45 min is not enough unless you cut corners. What's your answer going to be to the NTSB?

Two sets of eyes are critical when looking at the flight papers. The text me if you're copasetic might work in most occasions. There are times when a face to face discussion is more appropriate. I think our flight attendants and passengers deserve better than a haphazard operational attitude when it comes to flight planning.

Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald (Post 2601919)

Sorry, but he is not in the minority. You are not reviewing all the paperwork and betting your ticket every time you do that.

I have caught quite a few things that dispatch either did not see or never looked at. That is what we are paid to do. For the last 25 years, I just can't seem to do a preflight in less than 20 minutes, and that is if nothing goes wrong and I'm not interrupted. Doing a preflight and flight papers in that time, I'm skeptical.

if you do the job the FOM requires us to do, no interruptions, or distractions, you can do it in the allotted minimum time, barely. If you manage to do it in less, you are cutting corners--my experience.

Arguing because no one else is doing it is not a valid point. That's what got NASA in trouble with the space shuttle. It worked before! Serves no purpose, reviewing flight papers, weather, notams? Yes, I am one of those UAL types, and will continue to be one.

Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 2600718)

I totally disagree with both of you.

First off you need to understand that flight planning with the FO in the flight planning office was the way most LUAL flights were done before the merger and the vast majority of LUAL captain's still do that today. Going straight to the plane was an unusual event when you were particularly late or wanted to grab food. 90% of the time pilots went first to the flight planning office and sat down at a table to review all the papers and only after BOTH pilots had looked everything over did the captain sign the release and then BOTH pilots went together to the plane.


Also, there is absolutely no way a domestic pilot can load his iPad, read all the NOTAMS and review the DIL and review the weather forecast for the destination and enroute and alternate and discuss MEL items and fuel with your FO and THEN do a full setup in an A320 when the van drops you off 45 minutes prior.

You can say no one at LCAL ever had a problem with 30 minutes, but I will tell you I had a friend at the commuters who got violated because he didn't read a NOTAM about a changed minimum on an ILS into HPN and shot an approach when visibility was below the NOTAM'd limit. I had my own case as an FO on the 767 when flying to ZRH with GVA listed as an alternate. Turns out buried deep in the NOTAMs was a tiny note saying GVA would be closed for the time period we were going to arrive. The next closest suitable alternate ended up causing us to add gas. Who knows what choices we might have been faced with if I hadn't caught that note. What about our guys that missed the tid-bit about calling Turkey ahead of crossing VESAR that got in trouble. Do you think a little more time reviewing the available info might have been prudent?

Cutting corners in reviewing information may work most of the time as there isn't much relevant in there 99% of the time, but skip something important just once and you may be in trouble.

Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 2602860)

You guys opposed to the thorough planning crowd are missing the primary point which I posted earlier.

Having the right to a flight planning area and time to flight plan was a hard fought union gain. Giving it up for nothing is foolish. THAT is the main issue.

Originally Posted by 757Driver (Post 2602667)

Drama much ?

I have no problem getting the aircraft prepared and doing all of the above mentioned duties in less than 30. Not sure what on earth you’re doing in the FPA for 45+ minutes but I’m guessing multi-tasking isn’t your strong suit.

Have no idea why the UAL types cling to this prehistoric remnant from a long ago era but it’s bordering on the ridiculous. Don’t believe me, just ask some of your chums at the other airlines.

Originally Posted by Glenntilton (Post 2602955)

On a vanilla flight, 45 minutes is fine, it is those situation where WX, MNX, etc, that is where we need to protect having 60 minutes as a minimum.

Get back to 60 minutes for domestic, IMHO.

Originally Posted by A320 (Post 2602699)

I have no problem with meeting at the plane. Signing off on the flight plan and fuelnwithout any discussion with the FO first is unacceptable. Changing the van time unilaterally without actual concurrence with the FO unacceptable. I am ok with the FO starting the APU ASAFP when they get on the plane in the summer since we all know the ground air sux.