Old Mako

I’m pretty sure one of us needs to go read 20-K-5-a of the UPA.

Here’s a hint.....it isn’t me.

13 hours to DEPARTURE time for LSR call out.

Don’t mix this up with other provisions like 12+45 scheduled duty break in base (domestic/basic example) from Release to Report.

Lee

Then it's not a 13-hour long-call window. It's 12.
Just like S-Call, scheduling thinks it's 2.5 to push.

;)

I hear what you are saying.

However, the 13 to push/departure time is defined that way because they can reduce a global RSVs report to 60 mins vice the normal 90 mins. Also, if the first leg was a DHD, then normal report is 30 prior.

Normal report time for a Basic RSV is 60 minutes prior (flying leg). If you want to look at it as a 12 hour call out in this case, that works for me. Just want to make sure you understand the difference.

As to the SC issue, the 2.5 is to report unless you agree to a short call out. What a given scheduler might think is irrelevant.

Lee

Lee, what you’re saying is correct except in the case if you’re coming off a trip and are on long call. You need 12+45 from debrief before reporting for the next trip unless assigned prior to block in.

On the check-in for DH, I don’t go off if when the latest I’m allowed to check in, I go off of when the required pairing report time is.

Sometimes it is only a few minutes difference, but that few minutes has saved me before when they tried to give me an illegal assignment.

While I am well aware of the provisions of 5-E and 5-F, that wasn’t the discussion.

In the case of the 12+45 scheduled in base duty break directed by 5-E-3, you should see that reflected in the FIFO list as R xxxx/date where xxxx is the 12+45 added on to your trip release time.

Simply stated, it gives you an extra 45 mins before you would be legal to report for a trip or FSB. And you are correct, they shouldn’t assign a trip/FSB with a report prior to that time.

If they gave you a short call right after release from a trip, that would be legal with the minimum 10 hours (or 12 hours if assigned after 1800). You just couldn’t be assigned a trip that required a report earlier than the time I described above.

I won’t go into the 5-F-3 actual ops 10+45 min in base break since we are talking reserve here.

And we are talking about Basic requirements. Global has different required minimum times.

Regarding DHD, any FDP that starts with a DHD should reflect a 30 min report time which sat arts your FAR117 FDP clock on the assumption that you have a flight you are later operating that doesn’t have an intervening rest period.

Lee

Ok I get what you’re saying. Thanks.

Good, because when a PDR comes in, we look at the whole picture, UPA and FAR117 legalities. Each situation is different. While FAR legal might be UPA illegal. And the opposite.

Rather than grab on to one provision of the UPA, learn them all and the FAR.

LEE

Wait, who is grabbing one section of the UPA and not learning the FAR? I thought this thread was going well. My tone detector must be broken.

Sorry and apologies if I offended. I’m just saying that every pilot that submits a PDR has their own unique set of facts. They look at one thing but miss the bigger picture on the other legalities, be they FAR or UPA.

We often find other overriding issues that the pilot hadn’t considered.

Try the PDR.alpa.org if you ever have a scheduling issue.

Again, sorry if I came across the wrong way.

Lee

No worries. No offense taken, thanks for the info and references. It helps!