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-   -   Dont land like its the sim (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/114862-dont-land-like-its-sim.html)

Airhoss 07-07-2018 09:18 PM


Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 2629909)
:p:p Truth!! Had a Captain tell me "The day you think you have finally figured it out...is the day it will bite you in the a$$...." Thankfully, I never dropped the rubber-jungle.

Hoss, for me, just the opposite: I find the 767-300 is the easiest to land airliner I've ever flown, especially in a 5-kt crosswind. 757-200? Stick forces get too high in the flare. 757-300 a lot easier than the -200, but I haven't flown it (or the 767-400) in more than two years.

Flying out of Denver you got to fly the 767 about once a quarter. Everything else was on the 757-200 (76T). So it was just a matter of familiarity. I got transitioned over to the 756 about 2 weeks before I went back to the 777 so I never flew the 753 or the 764 enough to have an opinion about them.

climb 07-08-2018 12:00 AM

MD-11 was a SOB. flew it with power.. a real ***** in a crosswind(the ailerons get pronouncedly more sensitive near the ground) so draggy when crossed up.

Quite a few times I had shakey legs on the taxi in.

767-300 felt like a dream in comparison. That being said.. MD_11 was a blast to fly.

757Driver 07-08-2018 04:55 AM


Originally Posted by Grumble (Post 2629522)
I know nothing about the 764, but landing with power is an almost sure fire way to bang the tail on the uberbuppy.

Not true and yet another TK perpetuated fairy-tale. Only bounces I've ever witnessed were guys who thought it would be fun to chop the power at 15+ feet.

Of course the norm is to reduce the power at 10' and in calm wind, low altitude airports, it usually works just fine. High altitude DEN with gusty crosswinds is another story. Sometimes conditions warrant leaving the power on or even adding power at less than 10' and this one size fits all, TK nonsense is counter productive. Last time I checked the good ol' airports we land at ain't static and your landing techniques shouldn't be either.

Landed plenty of times with the power slightly up under the above stated conditions with a smooth, buttery finish every time. I'm sure the TK box surgeons will tell you otherwise as the sim is the absolute last word in technique line flying.

Sunvox 07-08-2018 05:19 AM

Flew 73's for 2 years, 756 for 17 years, and 777 for 2 years, and now Airbus for 4 months. My 2 cents . . . hands down easiest landing plane was the 777. 767-400 was difficult but predictable. I have almost a 1000 hours in it, and p!!ssed off Spence Kershaw to no end when I greased my first ever landing in it in Milan. Power management, speed control, timing, AND anticipating the HUGE ground effect were critical. Miss any one and it'd be hard.

Now the Airbus that's a whole other ball of wax. To me it's a fickle feline that changes it's mind every time and is constantly trying to "help" you when you least want the help especially with speed. Maybe I'll change my mind in a year, but right now I have yet to figure it out. Had my hardest landing ever at United in Knoxville in calm winds on a clear day. Temperature was about 100 degrees and Fifi set my approach speed right at the minimum, and I didn't realize Fifi does that until after so I went to flare and there was nothing there because of the high density altitude, no bounce but a heck of a lot harder than I would have liked. Learned that day to pay attention to what Fifi thinks is a good approach speed. Be prepared to add a few knots, and never simply trust Fifi to pick a good speed for you.

Ni hao 07-08-2018 09:00 AM

On OE 4R EWR 900ER cut the power to soon and pitched up to far! I think the gear is still on the runway. I stood in the door and took my shots. The NJ/NY crowd was not shy at telling me that sucked BAD! I said yes it did. :D


The 900ER is still big foot really. Keep power on longer and land it flat very little pitch up. It looks weird but seems to work. 700 flaps 40 keep power on whole way down. I find 800 a breeze to land.

Airway 07-08-2018 09:38 AM


Originally Posted by Ni hao (Post 2630224)
On OE 4R EWR 900ER cut the power to soon and pitched up to far! I think the gear is still on the runway. I stood in the door and took my shots. The NJ/NY crowd was not shy at telling me that sucked BAD! I said yes it did. :D


The 900ER is still big foot really. Keep power on longer and land it flat very little pitch up. It looks weird but seems to work. 700 flaps 40 keep power on whole way down. I find 800 a breeze to land.

7/800 Flaps 40 is a pain to try to grease on. Sluggish, at idle the nose just drops, pull back just a tiny bit much and it balloons. All this on a short runway.

Haven't heard any secrets to nailing a 40 landing yet. Only time I saw a pretty one, it was me and it was a total accident, lucky recovery from what would have been a banger!

Any guppy flaps 30 seems to be a breeze.

Grumble 07-08-2018 09:38 AM


Originally Posted by 757Driver (Post 2630030)
Not true and yet another TK perpetuated fairy-tale. Only bounces I've ever witnessed were guys who thought it would be fun to chop the power at 15+ feet.

Of course the norm is to reduce the power at 10' and in calm wind, low altitude airports, it usually works just fine. High altitude DEN with gusty crosswinds is another story. Sometimes conditions warrant leaving the power on or even adding power at less than 10' and this one size fits all, TK nonsense is counter productive. Last time I checked the good ol' airports we land at ain't static and your landing techniques shouldn't be either.

Landed plenty of times with the power slightly up under the above stated conditions with a smooth, buttery finish every time. I'm sure the TK box surgeons will tell you otherwise as the sim is the absolute last word in technique line flying.

Its absolutely true and the FOQA data proves it. Bounce with power, even slightly, offender closes the throttles. Main gear are spinning and wheel spin up + throttles closed = spoiler deployment. The spoilers move the center of lift forward, the nose pitches up and the airplane comes down from the bounce on its tail.

https://youtu.be/PUD74Hcsocw

I agree though that yanking the power at 20’ or more is a guaranteed spincter tightening event every time. TK went a little overboard, the throttles just have to closed at main gear touch down, that spot is different for every landing. Some guys have no stick and rudder skills however and need a rote procedure.

757Driver 07-08-2018 10:17 AM


Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 2630037)
I have almost a 1000 hours in it, and p!!ssed off Spence Kershaw to no end when I greased my first ever landing in it in Milan.

Beers on me for that one. Spence “Melonhead” Kershaw was one of, if not the biggest d!ckhead I ever had the misfortune to fly with. Left the airplane the second he become the lead check airman on the 757 and scurried off to another base to put as much distance between me and his big, oversized head.

BMEP100 07-08-2018 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 2630037)
I have almost a 1000 hours in it, and p!!ssed off Spence Kershaw to no end when I greased my first ever landing in it in Milan.

Ha, ha, ha. 🍺 Bet that got his pate glistening.

Did he regale you with exploits over the Mekong in the A4? Quite the Sampan hunter, that one.

climb 07-08-2018 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 2630037)
Now the Airbus ... Learned that day to pay attention to what Fifi thinks is a good approach speed. Be prepared to add a few knots, and never simply trust Fifi to pick a good speed for you.

If you put in a firm speed on Vapp page you don't get Mini GS, and when it works, its nice.

What I see works well is manual thrust and (if you need) manual flying above the bug 5kts on a 319. With auto-thrust sometimes your a knot slow and she cobs the power right before going into the flare or leaves the power back because your a knot fast going into the flare, you cant always feel or mitigate that with limp throttles... Plus no pilot fly's like that and when your looking outside you don't have the awareness with non moving throttles of how much help your going to get with residual thrust below 20ft during spool down.

Shes very streaky, your hot for a month then your not. That being said, my word is mud as the capt was blaming me for the 19 wheelchairs we needed in phx last week.:D:D . https://memegenerator.net/img/instan...g-about-me.jpg


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