Sunvox

I know this has been discussed at length before, but I think now I see real world evidence of the impact. Recently I was in Denver when a United plane put a nose wheel in the mud trying to make a high speed turnoff in icy conditions, and I worry that what I am seeing on the line in terms of pilots being in a hurry is reducing safety at our airline so I thought I'd reopen a discussion on the divisive topic of preflight planning. I am aware that most times, we as professionals can get the job done within the allotted 45 minute report time, but take a moment and ask yourself if 45 minutes is adequate time to review ALL the pertinent and important information or are you using personal time to get the job done. Here is what the FOM says:

Have you ever missed an important NOTAM or runway friction report or forecast severe icing or ozone alerts? If you're like me you most likely have recognized after the fact that you missed something on more than one occasion. It is my opinion that the 45 minute report time simply does not allow for adequate time for a thorough preflight review of ALL the pertinent information. I know some of us, in an attempt to "get the job done", are reviewing material in the hotel or on the van, but as long as we do this the company has no way to see that 45 minutes really isn't adequate. Perhaps if we did it right and filed PDR's whenever we felt rushed, it would help our negotiators show the company that a 45 minute report time really depends on pilots going the extra mile by reviewing material before work which really isn't fair to us. Far better would be a return to the 1 hour report so that we are all assured adequate time to review ALL the information required by the FOM EVERY flight and not have to use our personal time to make it work. I also realize not everyone agrees with my analysis and this issue has been discussed before, but like I said I think I am seeing this on the line in a negative fashion now, and so I bring it up again for discussion.

Anyways, just a thought . . .

BMEP100

Heck, United considers 45 minute show time sufficient for a 2 pilot ETOPS red eye between OGG-DEN.

Broncofan

It's not enough time especially in a big city fighting traffic we end up getting to the plane with 30 min till push. It might be overkill but I hate being rushed i want to be at the plane an hour prior.

frascaflyer

Or LIM-IAH and LIM-EWR.

It's not only about the amount of time you need. It's also about UAL getting 15 (or 45) extra minutes of duty time out of us.

But we keep answering the call, so I guess it's 45 forever. All you Lima crews: just keep taking the van with the F/As, ok? Thanks.

Sunvox

I posted this on the other forum as well and someone there brought up an excellent point that today's United is filled with new hires. Years ago when the union agreed to 45 minutes most pilots had a decade or sometimes more experience in their fleet, seat, and domicile. Today when I'm departing from an uncontrolled airport in high terrain and bad weather with a new hire that may never have flown in any of those conditions, then really 45 minutes is inadequate. Safety should always be first and foremost.

Bpcrate

Bring back 30 minutes. If you need that much time do it on your time. It just isn’t that hard.


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oldmako

1. Show up on schedule, utilizing the company provided transportation.
2. Take the time you need to get things done in ops and at the gate.
3. Release the parking brake only when both of you are fully ready.
4. Those days that you don't meet departure time, take the phone call when/if it comes.

Safety (and your ticket) should not be based on some average number for each and every flight. Unfortunately, I've been around long enough to know that it often is. Sometimes, some of us are our own worst enemies.

Flytolive

All bow to the ace of the base! And say some prayers for his copilots.

For us mere mortals with new-hires on bad wx days we might need a little more time that is duly accounted for as duty day.

Amazing how some pilots just don't get it. But when they have an incident and spent 10 minutes in line at Starbucks instead of doing a thorough preflight they sure have a come to Jesus revelation.

Phoenix21

Nothing is stopping folks who want to take their own initiative and get there early...

Zenofzin

I’ve also seen in general newer guys want to try to make first high speed when they land, wanting to put your flaps up as soon as possible (hand hovering over flap handle), doing 330 kt climb and 125 CI even though it just waste gas. Great times to try and be a mentor and slow things to a safe pace. With that said the quality of new hires I’ve flown with is exceptional, great bunch of pilots coming on board.