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-   -   Short-term paycuts vs Chapter 11 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/128209-short-term-paycuts-vs-chapter-11-a.html)

Me103 03-17-2020 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by Big John (Post 3001403)
I guess you don’t remember Paul Whiteford and Mike Glawe telling us during C2003, “Don’t let it go to the judge.”

Regardless, once you’re in Chapter 11, management tells the judge what they need and the judge gives it to them. Have the laws changed back to where a bankrupt company goes into receivership or does management still call their own shots?

Management still call their own shots. That’s the danger of Chapter 11. There are no pensions to shed onto the government, so management will get what they want in CH11. Hopefully it never gets there.

There has only been one airline bankruptcy since the bankruptcy law change. It’s now much less management friendly. Ask the then AA management how their bankruptcy worked out for them. Here is a hint: the AA management group lost control of the process and American is now run by the team from Phoenix.

Cessna182TypeR 03-17-2020 09:48 AM


Originally Posted by Regularguy (Post 3001422)
I've been at this for four decades, furloughed, strike, ESOP, BK, merger and now this.

Two things that bug me.

1. Selfish, egotistical pilots who think it's only about them.
2. Pilots who don't get they have a representative Union which will do their best to cut a deal.

It does no good to discuss what you personally are willing to take, give or whatever here or anywhere. It's not about you there's 13K other pilots with issues who are represented by ALPA.

You may hate what they come up with and quite frankly what they come up with may kill the goose or it might save it for another day. It is what it is.

Oh, and try to tell your FAs or neighbors how bad it was to be paid $95 an hour. They will probably shake their head and walk away.

Yeah, the neighbors probably think the $95 / hr is for a 40 hr work week x 4 for a months pay. Not how it works. Not their business either. Everyone needs to take care of their family.

I agree though, why not wait for the union to come back with something?

horrido27 03-17-2020 12:49 PM

Mods..
Why are you allowing this 'individual' on here?

Motch

Scoop 03-18-2020 06:20 AM


Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 3001682)
Mods..
Why are you allowing this 'individual' on here?

Motch


Have you reported any specific TOS violations? We do not have enough MODs to effectively police this Forum without user help, and we can use as much help as possible. Individual users can help by reporting specific posts. We have made it very easy to report a post via the red triangle exclamation point on each post.

Scoop

The Sentinel 03-18-2020 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by Cessna182TypeR (Post 3001465)
Yeah, the neighbors probably think the $95 / hr is for a 40 hr work week x 4 for a months pay. Not how it works. Not their business either. Everyone needs to take care of their family.

I agree though, why not wait for the union to come back with something?

Duriing the last bankruptcy, the neighbors thought I worked 80 hours a month. Like 20 hours per week.

baseball 03-18-2020 06:25 PM

Short term pay cuts not a good option for pilots. We can't manage what we can't manage. Giving up our pay still doesn't give us any control over the decision making.

Fly your trip for the negotiated pay rate and go home.

Taking a pay cut only helps the institutional investor, it doesn't help the employees. if management needs a loan they can get one with their good credit and/or any government programs.

We may all need to take out a few loans. Heck, ,if we negotiate give-backs, all pilots are going to be at the bank lining up. Better way is just to have management at the bank getting access to the capital they need.

The pilot group isn't a bank. We aren't a coin operated one-arm bandit. Banks give and lend money. Pilots...no, we've given way too much and haven't had it returned.

Not being mean or petty, but being real. If you were working on active duty in the military you wouldn't be negotiating a new pay rate for a first lieutenant or a major....same applies here.

baseball 03-18-2020 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by The Sentinel (Post 3003136)
Duriing the last bankruptcy, the neighbors thought I worked 80 hours a month. Like 20 hours per week.

That was only the first job. When you added up jobs 1, 2, and 3 you were pushing 90 plus billable hours a week.

Probe 03-18-2020 11:55 PM

If I were the government I would not provide funding or loans to any company without instant, non-negotiated compensation changes for executives and highly compensated employees. Companies that bought back their own shares instead of making the company healthier would have to surrender those shares to the Treasury in exchange for funding, and they only get them back if they can pay the Treasury back.

No negotiations. Take it or leave it. "No" means Chapter 11 at a minimum, probably Chapter 7 because no lender would provide DIP financing in these circumstances.

Just like when we declare an emergency in an airplane, the country has declared an emergency. They will do what they need to do to survive as a society.

I would expect it before the middle of next week.

iahflyr 03-19-2020 02:24 AM


Originally Posted by Probe (Post 3003439)
If I were the government I would not provide funding or loans to any company without instant, non-negotiated compensation changes for executives and highly compensated employees.

Be careful what you wish for. Highly compensated employees may include those making over 100k a year, ie, all of us pilots.

Probe 03-19-2020 04:13 AM

I consider pilots highly compensated employees. At least until the end of this week.


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