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Old 08-30-2020 | 06:40 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Poss
Scab mentality is the willingness to cross a picket line and profit while the pilot group is on strike for the betterment of the profession. I don't think our MC is currently in pursuit of the betterment of our profession.

If pilot concessions are not imposed, then one should not benefit when pilots are on furlough. Conversely...
Our MEC is defending our contract and demanding that it is followed in the biggest event to ever face the airlines. They have learned from past mistakes what happens to the profession if we line up to weaken our contracts for the illusion of saving something. It stinks, but it is better to furlough with an intact contract, than to spend years trying to get back to where we are right now. If that isn’t standing for the betterment of the profession, I don’t know what is.
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Old 08-30-2020 | 06:52 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Hedley
I know what you meant. Just call people selfish and unethical. A scab may possess the same qualities, but only crossing a line makes one a scab. Also, my comment was meant to be more in general and not aimed at you directly. No offense intended.
My bad and my apologies!!!
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Old 08-30-2020 | 06:53 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Hedley
Our MEC is defending our contract and demanding that it is followed in the biggest event to ever face the airlines. They have learned from past mistakes what happens to the profession if we line up to weaken our contracts for the illusion of saving something. It stinks, but it is better to furlough with an intact contract, than to spend years trying to get back to where we are right now. If that isn’t standing for the betterment of the profession, I don’t know what is.
I'll agree at this point in time that is a valid argument since nothing has been produced to show otherwise. In my conversations with union officials the connected dots might lead elsewhere.

I hope not only for our contract but for our pilot group that you are correct.
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Old 08-30-2020 | 07:17 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Poss
I'll agree at this point in time that is a valid argument since nothing has been produced to show otherwise. In my conversations with union officials the connected dots might lead elsewhere.

I hope not only for our contract but for our pilot group that you are correct.
How about the group be allowed to vote and let’s see where everyone stands?
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Old 08-30-2020 | 07:27 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by ReadOnly7
How about the group be allowed to vote and let’s see where everyone stands?
I’d expect the majority to protect the contract as it is written and not give anything, even if it could potentially save a few furloughs. Don’t mean to sound heartless, but the majority of the seniority list has been through this before and know first hand what happens if you give an inch.
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Old 08-30-2020 | 07:41 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by DashTrash
None of what you mentioned is “scab mentality”!!!
I believe the same thing as you. However, others do not... based on what they say.

Originally Posted by Hedley
I...only crossing a line makes one a scab.
^ This ^
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Old 08-30-2020 | 07:52 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Hedley
I’d expect the majority to protect the contract as it is written and not give anything, even if it could potentially save a few furloughs. Don’t mean to sound heartless, but the majority of the seniority list has been through this before and know first hand what happens if you give an inch.
Then you have no reason to suppress a vote. Many of us would appreciate the opportunity to see that for ourselves. Depending on the language, I wouldn’t necessarily vote for it.....but I’d like a chance to have a say. We all pay union dues....but we are clearly not all represented.
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Old 08-30-2020 | 08:14 PM
  #28  
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From: SFO Guppy CA
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Originally Posted by Hedley
I’d expect the majority to protect the contract as it is written and not give anything, even if it could potentially save a few furloughs. Don’t mean to sound heartless, but the majority of the seniority list has been through this before and know first hand what happens if you give an inch.
But this is different to my recollection because United Pilots have never tried to give TEMPORARY concessions to mitigate furloughs. They have given concessions to save their A Plan and because former Union Leaders misleadingly recommended it. But none of that was to mitigate furloughs.
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Old 08-31-2020 | 04:20 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by ReadOnly7
How about the group be allowed to vote and let’s see where everyone stands?
I would say yes with two caveats. First, the MEC should never rubber stamp an agreement. They have information not privy to the pilot group which could influence their decision.

Second, if an agreement is engineered or tweaked to achieve a vote outcome it should never see the light of day. We can all agree this is a highly charged topic. Delta polled it's pilot group and by a margin of 90% they rejected the notion of reducing their ALV by 15% to eliminate furloughs for a year. If an agreement can be crafted, it should be solely on its intent. I'm afraid this might not be the case.
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Old 08-31-2020 | 04:40 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by DashTrash
But this is different to my recollection because United Pilots have never tried to give TEMPORARY concessions to mitigate furloughs. They have given concessions to save their A Plan and because former Union Leaders misleadingly recommended it. But none of that was to mitigate furloughs.
The problem is that people remember what happened last time. They agreed to concessions to save something, and the company took it anyway. Another trip through the bankruptcy courts is a very real possibility for all airlines right now. The company could very easily argue that a temporary provision needs to be made permanent to save the company and we spend the next ten years trying to get it back. If we do go down that road, we need to go in with a fully intact contract. The reasons for concessions may be different, but the outcome usually isn’t.
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