Cares 3 and full April schedules
 

My Spidey senses are tingling.

Word is if this passes; is it MPG until September 30?

Not sure the meaning of “Full April Schedules”. There was a CCS message about this already. PBS has already been loaded for 45% bucket per LOA. (Reduced work & credit hours by seniority bucket.) Once Biden signs CARES 3, April pay will be reconciled to UPA credit guarantees. In other words, April becomes a “partial work, full pay” month.

Yes, and if the company was smart they would delay PBS and make April a "full work, full pay" month.

There was a CCS message about possiblly adjusting PBS timelines.

Part of the reason for wanting the LOA was to spread out the flying more than is allowed per contract so as to keep more pilots current. I just flew with a October 2019 new hire FO who didn't fly for 10 months. As an example NY Airbus has 3700 flight hours in April, well below norm. If they build min credit lines as per the LOA they can double the number of FOs who stay current.

Making April "full work, full pay" is not beneficial to UAL pilot currency; besides why not enjoy one last month of getting paid for 70 hours (ultimately) and only working 30-60 depending on where you sit.

The UPA requires it to be open on a certain day so let’s not waive that.

Vacancy opens today and looks like the vacancy for closed categories will open later on this month.

Paul’s update is up on FT now.

For good reason.

This just arrived in my inbox.

Why would we do that? I just put in my bid for a 45 hour line which will pay 70 hours with the cares extension, and now I will have to add more days of work to get that same 70 hours? Scratching my head on this one.

Huh, you voted NO for the LOA so you should be happy with full work for 70hours of pay. Don’t be sneaky and try to use or b!tch about the LOA to work in your favor now since you voted NO on it.

The Cares Act is, or was, working in my favor. If the LOA is so great why is the MC trying to get away from it now. It cuts both ways.

In January I worked 45 hours got paid 70. Looked like the same setup for April until the rug was pulled out by the MC.

Also, if you actually read my posts on here my complaint about the LOA was not about the reduced MPGs. I actually don't mind that part of the LOA. My complaint was about the paycut we are taking in vacation months because of the 2:20 MPG multiplier and how that was purposely omitted during the sales job. Under the LOA we are taking a paycut in vacation months yet we were repeatedly told, there are no paycuts. That is why I voted no.

Yeah, I’m really not getting this one. Feds are handing us free money this month & ALPA goes to the company & says “wait, let us work MORE days for the same pay”?! What am I missing?

Right I thought mako wrote that. Luv got that mako logic.

Because the company was using layoffs as leverage for free money but they really need us in the cockpit. They didn't think it was gonna take this long to fleece the taxpayers and LOA kicked in screwing them. Now ALPA is covering as usual! Just my guess.

Mako voted NO, I voted YES, my logic doesn’t cross path with him and I don’t pervert over mid 20’s fishing pics. Anyone that voted YES has the right to be upset about the upcoming April bid, anyone that voted NO should shut their trap because if the LOA was voted down, they will be out there working for full pay without the LOA option.

#EMFH. Every Man For Himself, got it.

https://worldairlinenews.files.wordp...rlrw.jpg?w=625

Ingraining the mentality at a young age so they expect it later in their career.

Except that other thing we got to vote on. This is unilateral contravention of the LOA provisions. And your stupid opinion counts just as much as any other stupid opinion, assuming you’re in good standing,

It doesn’t matter if you voted yea or nay for the loa. All of us have the right to expect the agreement will be followed. It is the agreement ...good or bad. Personal feelings aside it applies to all of us.
the argument that (you didn’t vote for it so shut up ) doesn’t work in a functioning representative democracy of our union.( or any other political system for that matter) rules should apply to all. Regardless of vote.

I personally I’m very grateful to both the rank-and-file Union volunteers and our MEC leadership, but this one is a bit confusing to me. It kind of reminds me of when we were mandated to wear vests on walk rounds… And ALPA said “ this was our idea, and you’re welcome”

also, if you don’t like Todd‘s grandstanding around the LOA… Maybe also reconsider that announcement some guys make during deplaning: “we got you here 10 minutes early… You’re welcome.” Always sounded a little funny to me. More likely to come off as gloating, than engender gratitude

So you guys are *****ing about having to work a full schedule for the full pay you are going to get? Think about how that plays with the taxpayer paying our salaries right now.

are you an airline pilot? Have you ever met a pilot who found a contractual way to work less for more pay and said no thank you?

I want United succeed, I think Kirby is a great guy… But when they dropped my Hong Kong ferry flight and tried to reassign me… I did not pick up my phone, I PDRed the “missed trip” and got paid to stay home.

it doesn’t seem like people are confused why the company would want to do this… Or if they are well within their rights, I think it is more of a question why ALPA would be endorsing this action.

No I’m not an airline pilot. I’m a 15 year old jerking off in my moms basement. The point is people are complaining about how they will get full pay and actually have to work a full schedule. I have no idea if the loa allows for this or not, but this is one area where it might be wise to keep it to yourself.
headline:
UAL pilots complain about having to work a full schedule.

that will go over well

I didn't qualify for most of the cares act money because my income was too high (in 2019). Everyone gets handouts. We're getting ours through our employer. Much of the country sat at home and collected full pay too. Don't give ours away.

You deal with the reality of the world you're in, not the unreality of the world you're not in. Whatever is in place, is what's in place. I didn't vote for Biden, but I gotta suck it up and pay for all those illegal aliens he's admitting into the country. Outcomes; contracts, LOA's, and elections all have ramifications. The reality is the reality. How you voted matters not. How you conduct yourself after the vote is what matters.

Anything that I can do to help my family is what I am doing. In my reality I just gotta work smarter; and not harder.

That's a pretty valid point. Our social security "safety net" is the cares program to our employer which filters down to the employee. While not eligible individually due to income constraints, we are eligible in a de-facto manner due to our status as critical infrastructure and interstate commerce support.

no, much of the country didn’t sit at home with full pay. We are one of the few groups that has. And no one is giving it away, just asking you to be sensitive to the optics of complaining about having to work a full schedule for your full pay. Anyway, it has been decided, schedule reductions next month to be trued up after the fact. Just don’t rub it in your neighbors face.

Crisis averted. Check CCS or your inbox for message from the MEC.

April will be a LOA month with paragraph S to follow.

We can now return to invigorating APC discussions of politics, religion, and crew meals.

Maybe in some sectors, but I know A LOT of people who sat at home and received nothing but a pink slip. Many of my renters filed financial hardship to take advantage of the eviction moratorium in CA. These people are getting a pittance in aid. Be thankful to future generations for the debt your full pay is loading them with.

And that REALLY SUCKS.

Are they by chance Airline Pilots with a Union and a CBA that contained a monthly pay guarantee? Do they have an ATP worth well over 100K in their pockets?

I am not without compassion, but there are apples and there are watermelons.

I don’t harbor any delusions about deserving this aid. Sure, there’s a larger discussion to be had about whether this truly benefits the American economy by preserving essential transportation infrastructure, but if the feds are offering 6 months of income security, I’ll happily accept.

I know there are a lot of people out there who’ve lost a much bigger piece of a lot less than I make to begin with; and been given a lot less in return. It isn’t fair. Still, when the waiter brings free appetizers to the table, I don’t jump up & say “actually, I’d like to pay full price for these”, which is how I saw the initial MEC email. Maybe they were trying to gain something else on our behalf through that offer- I guess we’ll never know. There was no benefit to the pilots that I could discern from a decision like that, which made it an odd communication from our union representation in my opinion, but no harm no foul, I guess.

Unless you’re under consolidation for an aircraft displacement...yep! Full work for those folk. I’d much rather be doing far less work for MPG pay.

No, they were mostly small business owners who invested a hell of a lot more than $100k in what they built. One owned a fleet of tour busses, and now closed up shop. Another owned three hair salons, all shut down last year. Still another was a union employee working on the Keystone XL pipeline. He had a CBA, but I guess that $100k ATP would have kept his income intact, right? Nobody is paying these folks to sit at home and scratch their asses while watching Maury. Meanwhile, the grifters in DC burden our kids and grandkids with a mountain of debt, and unemployment barely puts food on the table. So, spare me that "most Americans have sat at home and collected full pay" BS.

All of this really sounds like the teachers Union debacle going on. Wow not really like, but the same outcome.

Yours or other peoples Grandkids and Great Grandkids will be paying back this Bailout cuz it will never be paid back by the recipients. Thanks does specifically go to them that become taxpayers.

*Granted, some folks believe their current taxes pay for it now. This bailout debt is well above and beyond status quo. And when folks argue “essential transportation” it definitely needs to be protected but to what extent... And essential dictates what is critically required to function, nothing else...

Its a great deal no doubt, but just enjoy life as much as you can and not try to justify it. Have fun, carry on.

All well and good but you missed my point. We had a contract with a monthly pay guarantee. They did not.

And I never said, "most Americans have sat at home and collected full pay".

Contract is contract down to the last dollar, hmmm and I mean last dollar. If there weren’t any government bailouts then what. Could your company have survived status quo. Answer - no more company, no more jobs, no more income therefore what contract - but hey the contract was maintained. We run around with our swords in the air when things are normal, good, great regarding contract, contract, contract and we all should be totally on board, but when an unforeseen catastrophe happens what is the true answer? Many said concessions to keep everyone on board, others said suck it up it’s the nature of the business (history proven) as many have ran this gauntlet before. Others with do concessions temporarily to recover as its purely a means to survive and then back to contract nothing lost and move on from there. Not saying I know any answers cuz I don’t, but at least there was some movement regarding early retirement, voluntary leave as the normal retirement rate chugs along. Definitely keep your contracts as best you can but how far will you go. I do not know. Only you know how much side cash your company has and how the business should attempt to thrive in the future.

Would teachers and their Union contracts be apples to apples, but then again they really don’t make any money as a business BUT control a strangle hold on the future/mental gains and health of many. Let’s all get back to work as we open up once again and that seems to be happening bit by bit.

It’s not just optics, reality has hit harder for far more people than we care to imagine.

BINGO! Amazing no one understands this. Absolutely amazing.

The min guarantee is in effect in good times and in bad times.

But never in effect if there are no times. Please find me a company you can guarantee on anything. Plenty have come and gone in good times and bad. Depends on what side your on. This was catastrophic for most cases. Absolutely amazing.

The sad fact is government has swung commie with totalitarian lockdowns, propagandized media, and fake elections. The guys who asked "what can I do for my country" got did by their country. The more money they put into it, the more they were screwed by the people who asked "what can my country do for me". Goodbye, small business owners.

It seems the majority of Americans would rather print dollars nonstop according to this new "people's economy" theory (author Stephanie Melton) where deficit spending is the economic prime mover and inflation is reigned in by tax, aka a command economy. You can't blame them, they couldn't work. But look at what asset prices have done despite the most unproductive economic year in a lifetime. Stocks, crypto, and real estate are all up up up. If your primary economic contribution is labor valued in dollars, sorry, sucks to be you. Maybe that min-wage increase will come through. Or maybe have another stimulus. Here's your dollar. No products or services were injected into the economy for you to spend it on since no one was at work. Rather enjoy driving up those assets for people who already didn't have to work. Either that or spend it on something you need to live before that dollar devalues completely, in which case "hooray" a stimulus has occured.

So now we have a feeding frenzy on these dollars that come from the legislature rather than from the creation of goods and services. I'm just not eager to provide real services in exchange for that. Lots of free money out there, as there should be, since nothing of value was created.

wow That's something right there.