Hey Axl

Just thought I’d give an update:

ORDER: The Court concludes that Defendant's Motion should be and is GRANTED in part. ECF No.70 . Accordingly, it is ORDERED that the above-quoted language from the second operative paragraph of the Temporary Restraining Order applies only to those individuals who submitted accommodation requests to Defendant on or before September 23, 2021, and that Defendant is not required to reopen its accommodation review process to consider requests made by individuals on or after September 24, 2021. All other relief requested in Defendant's Motion is DENIED. ECF No.70 . (Ordered by Judge Mark Pittman on 10/18/2021) (pef)

Thanks Lee. I can see a lot of filings on Pacer but I'm too cheap to view them 😀. That ruling sucks for a handful of pilots. Does this ruling change the TRO expiration date?

When is the hearing scheduled for?

😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁

What's the hourly rate and pay guarantee for 'true patriots' these days?

Remember when you were young & your grandpa used to say shockingly ignorant things, and you wondered how he could have such little self awareness?

The free exercise of unalienable rights? What rights are these, specifically?

I haven't seen the full order. This is a summary from Pacer Monitor but looks complete.

MEDIATION ORDER: The Court REFERS this case for mediation and APPOINTS Hon. Kent Hance, Chancellor-Emeritus, as Lead Mediator and Hon. Royal Furgeson Related [+], Dean-Emeritus, as Local Mediator. Counsel for the parties are ORDERED to attend an initial, in-person mediation on or before October 26, 2021, at a time and location to be determined by the Lead Mediator. The parties are ORDERED to contact the office of Chancellor Hance by October 22, 2021, at 12:00 p.m. The parties are further ORDERED to submit Preliminary Mediation Reports to Chancellor Hance by October 25, 2021, at 12:00 p.m. Finally, no later than October 29, 2021, at 12:00 p.m., the parties are ORDERED to file a Joint Mediation Report. (Ordered by Judge Mark Pittman on 10/20/2021) (pef)

Wow just wow. Of course you know this from your years of studying the complex issues revolving race and gender and years of first hand experience…or you just are spouting talking points that you have zero frame of reference. You are a special person god help anyone who ever had to be stuck on a trip with you or your spouse.

How complex can the issues get? A gender is computable if it can be approximated by some computable function f: R->G, where R is the set of all races i.e. {white, minority} such that ...

No, but the judge has ordered ADR……standard practice. The mediation is not binding so just kicks the can down what will be a very long road.

Obviously U filed an objection to Alternative Dispute Resolution with an arbitrator but will have to comply.

ADR is pretty much standard in civil lawsuits at the federal level.

Get comfortable, this is litigation and will not be a quick process. I think the TRO will extend through the end of the ADR outcome. Then the process will again move forward.

My 2 cents.

Standard practice in civil rights suits to seek ADR.

Brietbart lol. Give me CNN or NBC or some other reliable news source.

You consider CNN a reliable news source?

Don’t forget to put on your clown makeup when you leave for work.

That’s acceptable now as part of our new diverse and inclusive uniform policy.

There are people that are actually happy about people losing their jobs over this. Have to be a special kind of Dhead for that. Regardless of the side of this you are on you shouldn’t be joyful about someone losing their job over this. Hopefully some of you run your mouths in public to the wrong person. Can only hope.

i flew with one, had to listen to his BS. All I said was choices have consequences.

And you have not said an objective thing. Sick burn. Your entire post is opinion but in your mind I’m sure that is objective facts. Please show your work with objective examples. I’ll wait…

I don’t know anyone “giddy” about someone losing their job. On the other hand I just don’t care. If I knew the person in question I’d encourage them to do everything possible to stay employed. But I don’t and really don’t care about someone I don’t know doing something stupid that costs them their job. Even now, despite repeated warnings you hear people in denial about terminations and “indefinite “ leave. It’s incomprehensible how people can’t take this seriously and then ***** and moan that everone else won’t get on board with their collective hissy-fit. The obdurate, self-obsessed minority whining that an innocuous little shot violates their “freedoms” can continue to do so at home.The vast majority have demonstrated they’re more concerned with protecting themselves and each other and have moved on.

I don't know, if it was a sc@b I really wouldn't be too upset about it...

That I would be giddy about. (We can’t say scab without the “@“?)

I thought at one time it would pop up on the radar and get edited out, etc.

I know a guy who had a serious vaccine reaction last year to a flu shot, life threatening in fact. His doctor’s strong advice was to not take the COVID or any other vaccine. The DEN flight office’s attitude was “not our problem’ get the COVID shot or lose your job. He applied for and received a medical accommodation which is; you can keep your job but you’ll be on unpaid leave indefinitely.

He wound up taking the shot and is having severe long term issues from it.

Some of the assumptive crappie I’m reading here is just ignorant drivel. Not everyone who is adverse to taking the shot is “self absorbed”. There are rare yet serious medical issues for at least a few.

+1. Thanks for the post.

unpaid leave for vetted legit medical exemptions is unreasonable to put it mildly. Imo.

Highly unreasonable!

Not at UA. Read the company’s response and wondering if it’s true where it claims that vaccinated pilots are too too concerned and afraid to fly with unvaccinated pilots. I assume there’s some bloviation there from the company.

Treasury IG to audit airline compliance with CARES Act loans, amid COVID vaccine layoffs
United Airlines said it would terminate some 600 employees for refusing to comply with its vaccine mandate

The Treasury Department inspector general is planning to conduct an audit on whether major airline companies are in compliance with the terms of their federal government loans under the CARES Act, amid layoffs of employees due to coronavirus vaccine mandates.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...ance-cares-act

Southwest pilots' request for a TRO dismissed.

https://i.imgur.com/hOKglVE.png

Excellent post, thank you for sharing.

Yes, and unpaid leave for an undetermined amount of time is not even close to being reasonable. Largely because it was a bait and switch.

But, I think we have found the primary motivation behind it - and it's not to just get them to take the shot - It keeps these folks squarely in one corner for manpower purposes and then not subject to reoccurring testing that could cause manpower shortages on short notice.

The company gets to be all core4 by not firing the people who went out. At the end of the day, they’re hoping that a month or two without pay causes them to have a religious revelation and decide to get the shot. United didn’t “force” them, they acted on their own free will. Once vaccinated, they just go back to the line. This TRO is jacking up their plan since the pay cut motivation is removed.

Yes, absolutely, they would much prefer that everybody just get the shot and this is interfering with that plan. The bigger point I am making here is the WHY they want them to get the shots and WHAT they wanted to do with people that refused to get the shots while they were waiting for them to have a religious experience.

They want us to get the shots for 2 main reasons:

1. Kirby has said that he believes in the vaccine and that every letter he has written to the family of an employ that died from covid was for an unvaccinated employee. The vaccine isn’t a magic pill, but it does significantly reduce the seriousness and mortality rate of those affected. I do however find it ironic that he tells the press that 100% of United crews are vaccinated when he knows that over 50% of United flights are operated by regional crews who face no such mandate.

2. Money. Pilots not being able to work certain flights will cost money. Some places will require vaccination. No fleet is exempt and having pilots not able to cover any assignment creates scheduling inefficiencies that they want to avoid. If we’re all vaccinated, then we’re all interchangeable parts without restrictions. Requiring frequent testing could also cost money by having people not testing negative. My son for instance just had a test and it showed inconclusive. He never had any symptoms or a positive test, but a pilot with the same results would be pulled as a precaution and put a further strain on the already thin reserve availability.

Kirby wants everyone to believe like he does, if not he was willing to bribe us. The plan was to put those few parts that are not interchangeable on a shelf and store them without cost until things change or until they decided to become interchangeable by getting vaccinated so that they could be pulled off the shelf and plugged back into the machine. For now, the TRO is interfering since those parts are on the shelf, but United is paying for storage.

Yes, I expect so. I have never heard anyone with a vaccine express any concerns about flying with someone who doesn't have it. When I read that, I was surprised and thought the same thing.

I'm sure that the company's statement is factually 'correct'. They got a few management pilots (who don't fly much anyway) to express 'concern' about flying with unvaxed pilots.