Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   United (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/)
-   -   Vacancy Bid 2204-V2 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/135880-vacancy-bid-2204-v2.html)

FriendlyPilot 12-03-2021 08:09 AM

Vacancy Bid 2204-V2
 
Yet another massive vacancy bid.

268 Captain Vacancies
742 FO
1,010 total

We already had unfilled 737 and Airbus Captain bids on the last one. This is going to be even worse. 139 737 Captain bids alone. I bet 50 of them go unfilled as pilots bid out of LAX/SFO/EWR and into ORD/IAH/DEN.

Will easily see 100+ unfilled WBFO bids too.

This is nuts. They are going to need to hire more than 50 a week to cover these.

baseball 12-03-2021 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot (Post 3330530)
Yet another massive vacancy bid.

268 Captain Vacancies
742 FO
1,010 total

We already had unfilled 737 and Airbus Captain bids on the last one. This is going to be even worse. 139 737 Captain bids alone. I bet 50 of them go unfilled as pilots bid out of LAX/SFO/EWR and into ORD/IAH/DEN.

Will easily see 100+ unfilled WBFO bids too.

This is nuts. They are going to need to hire more than 50 a week to cover these.

The numbers in the last 3 bids is "dizzying" in some respects. I can't keep up. I can't wait to change fleets!

Explizer 12-03-2021 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot (Post 3330530)
Yet another massive vacancy bid.

268 Captain Vacancies
742 FO
1,010 total

We already had unfilled 737 and Airbus Captain bids on the last one. This is going to be even worse. 139 737 Captain bids alone. I bet 50 of them go unfilled as pilots bid out of LAX/SFO/EWR and into ORD/IAH/DEN.

Will easily see 100+ unfilled WBFO bids too.

This is nuts. They are going to need to hire more than 50 a week to cover these.

Right, so what has changed since the last bid? That is, where are the bodies going to come from to bid the CA slots? I guess this is just a shuffle to let all those that want out of LAX/SFO/EWR then, huh?

ThumbsUp 12-03-2021 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by Explizer (Post 3330594)
Right, so what has changed since the last bid? That is, where are the bodies going to come from to bid the CA slots? I guess this is just a shuffle to let all those that want out of LAX/SFO/EWR then, huh?

Thats what it looks like. Probably a lot of laterals sucking out of the coasts.

Mitch Rapp 12-03-2021 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by Explizer (Post 3330594)
Right, so what has changed since the last bid? That is, where are the bodies going to come from to bid the CA slots? I guess this is just a shuffle to let all those that want out of LAX/SFO/EWR then, huh?

This may or may not happen. There are a lot of senior pilots in IAH/ORD that have been waiting to upgrade in base that might take up a lot of these slots. I doubt if we see many unfilled CA vacancies, if any on this bid.

PA Slammer 12-03-2021 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot (Post 3330530)
Yet another massive vacancy bid.

268 Captain Vacancies
742 FO
1,010 total

We already had unfilled 737 and Airbus Captain bids on the last one. This is going to be even worse. 139 737 Captain bids alone. I bet 50 of them go unfilled as pilots bid out of LAX/SFO/EWR and into ORD/IAH/DEN.

Will easily see 100+ unfilled WBFO bids too.

This is nuts. They are going to need to hire more than 50 a week to cover these.


The FTC can’t handle more than 200 a month.

And with the high number of IAH CAs, we’re going to lose a LOT of instructors.

Broncofan 12-03-2021 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by PA Slammer (Post 3330623)
The FTC can’t handle more than 200 a month.

And with the high number of IAH CAs, we’re going to lose a LOT of instructors.

yep I was thinking the same thing

PA Slammer 12-03-2021 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by Broncofan (Post 3330626)
yep I was thinking the same thing


IAH will end up with a lot more than 60 CAs.

massgflight 12-03-2021 11:59 AM

To take the NB at a certain percentage in SFO, or not to take it? I don’t commute in. Tough choice leaving WB FO slot I think. Comments? FWIW I prefer to work less.

hamsandwich 12-03-2021 12:23 PM

How busy are den 756 reserves staying?

GoCats67 12-03-2021 12:44 PM


Originally Posted by Mitch Rapp (Post 3330603)
This may or may not happen. There are a lot of senior pilots in IAH/ORD that have been waiting to upgrade in base that might take up a lot of these slots. I doubt if we see many unfilled CA vacancies, if any on this bid.

I think we will still see them on the coasts. With 15 737 Cap openings in both EWR and SFO along with 5 A320 Cap openings in each, I don't see those getting filled. This is especially true when you consider that at least some of the 139 other 737 Cap bids and 50 A320 Cap bids elsewhere in the system (17 in CLE holy cow!!!) will be filled by folks lateraling out of EWR and SFO which will require backfills. So, you will really need more than 20 folks to bid for 737/A320 Cap in EWR and 20 folks to bid for 737/A320 Cap in SFO that didn't bid for Cap just 4 weeks ago. I don't think those 20+ openings now available in each location are going to find enough takers as I don't think that many folks will have changed their mind from 4 weeks ago.

This is a good start in balancing the flying out of the coasts, but I do not believe it will be enough. Once this bid closes then the "clean up" bids that they mention will undoubtedly address any more unfilled Captain vacancies. The good news for the FO side of the house is that this balancing will also have to happen in the FO seat to match the staffing with the Captains, so folks trying to lateral out of the Coasts in those seats should have a much greater chance to do so sooner.

ZeroTT 12-03-2021 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by GoCats67 (Post 3330648)
. The good news for the FO side of the house is that this balancing will also have to happen in the FO seat to match the staffing with the Captains.

do they have to? If they’re systematically dead heading captains out to the coasts, can the captains not pick up trips with native FO’s

GoCats67 12-03-2021 01:20 PM


Originally Posted by ZeroTT (Post 3330651)
do they have to? If they’re systematically dead heading captains out to the coasts, can the captains not pick up trips with native FO’s

While they don't have to keep the Cap and FO staffing in perfect balance, they don't build Cap only and FO only pairings in non-augmented flying. So, they will need the staffing levels between the two seats at each domicile to be close enough to allow the pairings built in PBS to be covered. So after you account for the increased Vacation available for the more senior Captain seat, you will see that the staffing levels across each of the BES's for 737s and A320s has balanced staffing for Caps and FOs

ZeroTT 12-03-2021 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by GoCats67 (Post 3330659)
While they don't have to keep the Cap and FO staffing in perfect balance, they don't build Cap only and FO only pairings in non-augmented flying.

that’s what I’m asking. They don’t or contractually they can’t

Broncofan 12-03-2021 02:27 PM

No snapshot today?

UALfoLIFE 12-03-2021 02:32 PM


Originally Posted by Broncofan (Post 3330676)
No snapshot today?

nope, Monday. Sure would be nice to post one on the opening day though.

ThumbsUp 12-03-2021 03:16 PM


Originally Posted by ZeroTT (Post 3330665)
that’s what I’m asking. They don’t or contractually they can’t

They offer TDYs all the time to address staffing differences. There are some benefits to volunteering for them (perdiem, $25/day, etc), but as far as schedule construction goes, they are considered a pilot at the TDY base at the their seniority.

Mitch Rapp 12-03-2021 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by GoCats67 (Post 3330648)
I think we will still see them on the coasts. With 15 737 Cap openings in both EWR and SFO along with 5 A320 Cap openings in each, I don't see those getting filled. This is especially true when you consider that at least some of the 139 other 737 Cap bids and 50 A320 Cap bids elsewhere in the system (17 in CLE holy cow!!!) will be filled by folks lateraling out of EWR and SFO which will require backfills. So, you will really need more than 20 folks to bid for 737/A320 Cap in EWR and 20 folks to bid for 737/A320 Cap in SFO that didn't bid for Cap just 4 weeks ago. I don't think those 20+ openings now available in each location are going to find enough takers as I don't think that many folks will have changed their mind from 4 weeks ago.

This is a good start in balancing the flying out of the coasts, but I do not believe it will be enough. Once this bid closes then the "clean up" bids that they mention will undoubtedly address any more unfilled Captain vacancies. The good news for the FO side of the house is that this balancing will also have to happen in the FO seat to match the staffing with the Captains, so folks trying to lateral out of the Coasts in those seats should have a much greater chance to do so sooner.

Good points. Great post. I think (hope!) we are finally moving towards more balanced bases.

flightmedic01 12-03-2021 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by Mitch Rapp (Post 3330603)
This may or may not happen. There are a lot of senior pilots in IAH/ORD that have been waiting to upgrade in base that might take up a lot of these slots. I doubt if we see many unfilled CA vacancies, if any on this bid.

I actually believe there will be unfilled CA vacancies on this bid. Narrowbody reserve is a goat rope and our reserve rules are abysmal. I'm a EWR NB CA, live in base and its pathetic, especially covering LGA. I personally know of several people that are bidding back to the right seat from narrowbody captain reserve. QOL vs pay is something everyone needs to consider. Money isn't everything.

bigboeings 12-03-2021 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by flightmedic01 (Post 3330711)
I actually believe there will be unfilled CA vacancies on this bid. Narrowbody reserve is a goat rope and our reserve rules are abysmal. I'm a EWR NB CA, live in base and its pathetic, especially covering LGA. I personally know of several people that are bidding back to the right seat from narrowbody captain reserve. QOL vs pay is something everyone needs to consider. Money isn't everything.

I honestly don't get all the angst about reserve living in base.. pick up flights, make your own line ..Definitely not as flexible as a lineholder but very lucrative nonetheless.

C-17 Driver 12-03-2021 05:11 PM


Originally Posted by bigboeings (Post 3330725)
I honestly don't get all the angst about reserve living in base.. pick up flights, make your own line ..Definitely not as flexible as a lineholder but very lucrative nonetheless.

Agreed...so much of it depends on where you live and your BES. I've commuted to reserve and hated it with every fiber of my being.

PreCovid WB FO reserve was amazing. I've shared my 202 day record of not being used several times on this forum and I hope someone can beat it!

Post Covid NB Captain reserve on DCA 320 has been palatable thus far. Last month, I worked one 3-day trip and one 2-day trip, had 5 unused SCs/FSBs (3/2). I hate FSBs, but until the contract changes it, I'll just suck it up and go hang out at the airport in sweats and a hoodie.

bigboeings 12-03-2021 05:27 PM


Originally Posted by C-17 Driver (Post 3330739)
Agreed...so much of it depends on where you live and your BES. I've commuted to reserve and hated it with every fiber of my being.

PreCovid WB FO reserve was amazing. I've shared my 202 day record of not being used several times on this forum and I hope someone can beat it!

Post Covid NB Captain reserve on DCA 320 has been palatable thus far. Last month, I worked one 3-day trip and one 2-day trip, had 5 unused SCs/FSBs (3/2). I hate FSBs, but until the contract changes it, I'll just suck it up and go hang out at the airport in sweats and a hoodie.

It does depend where you live!

BAe3100FO 12-03-2021 06:21 PM

For those that have been NB FO reserve and NB CA reserve, is there a noticeable difference between the two? As far as how reserve is, and/or how scheduling treats you?

Other than the difference in job responsibilities and managing/juggling everything that being a Junior CA has to go with it…

PA Slammer 12-03-2021 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by ThumbsUp (Post 3330694)
They offer TDYs all the time to address staffing differences. There are some benefits to volunteering for them (perdiem, $25/day, etc), but as far as schedule construction goes, they are considered a pilot at the TDY base at the their seniority.


Interesting to see all the GUM TDYs just posted.

Paying them to be based there… and them paying them more to send them to hubs that are too expensive for anyone to want to be based.

It’ll be interesting to see if other hubs will eventually get additional pay to be based there.

UASCOMPILOT 12-04-2021 01:29 AM


Originally Posted by PA Slammer (Post 3330777)
Interesting to see all the GUM TDYs just posted. Paying them to be based there… and them paying them more to send them to hubs that are too expensive for anyone to want to be based. It’ll be interesting to see if other hubs will eventually get additional pay to be based there.

It would only work if your address determines the override...within a 2 hour driving radius/or some other means...less pilots would bid the bases just to get the override screwing the locals out of the pay that they actually need. Me personally, I would rather see improved work/reserve rules I know what it cost to live here in the N East. ​​​​​​​I can hold captain in NYC but I'm not bidding it for other selfish reasons....​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

massgflight 12-04-2021 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by C-17 Driver (Post 3330739)
Agreed...so much of it depends on where you live and your BES. I've commuted to reserve and hated it with every fiber of my being.

PreCovid WB FO reserve was amazing. I've shared my 202 day record of not being used several times on this forum and I hope someone can beat it!

Post Covid NB Captain reserve on DCA 320 has been palatable thus far. Last month, I worked one 3-day trip and one 2-day trip, had 5 unused SCs/FSBs (3/2). I hate FSBs, but until the contract changes it, I'll just suck it up and go hang out at the airport in sweats and a hoodie.


Dude yes! That is gold. I hope it returns.

HuggyU2 12-04-2021 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by C-17 Driver (Post 3330739)
...hang out at the airport in sweats and a hoodie.

https://www.esquire.com/uk/style/fas...debate-hoodie/

FYI, I'm a hard "no".

TransWorld 12-04-2021 10:34 AM

Ditto. Especially as a part of a pilot’s uniform.

worstpilotever 12-04-2021 11:10 AM

A hoodie with stripes and scrambled eggs on the hood. Can I get a hell yeah!?

flightmedic01 12-04-2021 11:23 AM


Originally Posted by bigboeings (Post 3330725)
I honestly don't get all the angst about reserve living in base.. pick up flights, make your own line ..Definitely not as flexible as a lineholder but very lucrative nonetheless.

Maybe reserve life is better on the Guppy. But regarding the Bus in EWR, there hasn't been much to pick up other than the LGA trips no one wants. The Bus does A LOT of LGA flying (around 40% of the trips). I don't volunteer for LGA trips, as getting there from PA is a Charley Foxtrot most of the time. So as far as "making my own line", that's not really feasible. And I can't remember the last time I broke guarantee on reserve. First world problems, I know.

bigboeings 12-04-2021 11:26 AM


Originally Posted by flightmedic01 (Post 3330982)
Maybe reserve life is better on the Guppy. But regarding the Bus in EWR, there hasn't been much to pick up other than the LGA trips no one wants. The Bus does A LOT of LGA flying (around 40% of the trips). I don't volunteer for LGA trips, as getting there from PA is a Charley Foxtrot most of the time. So as far as "making my own line", that's not really feasible. And I can't remember the last time I broke guarantee on reserve. First world problems, I know.

understand that, 737 is always busy with some LGA which I like because its closer to home for me.

ZeroTT 12-04-2021 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by flightmedic01 (Post 3330982)
. I don't volunteer for LGA trips, as getting there from PA is a Charley Foxtrot most of the time. So as far as "making my own line", that's not really feasible.

Maybe the lesson here is that Pennsylvania is not really “in base” for Newark reserve.

CheapFlyer 12-04-2021 04:33 PM


Originally Posted by ZeroTT (Post 3331009)
Maybe the lesson here is that Pennsylvania is not really “in base” for Newark reserve.

No, that is not "the lesson".

Two and a half hours from your primary airport is legal for short call reserve. Eastern Pennsylvania is just a little over an hour from Newark.

ZeroTT 12-04-2021 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by CheapFlyer (Post 3331060)
No, that is not "the lesson".

Two and a half hours from your primary airport is legal for short call reserve. Eastern Pennsylvania is just a little over an hour from Newark.

It was said "if you live in base you can pick up trips and build your own line"

Someone who described himself as living in base said "LGA is too far from Pennslyvania"

So yes, eastern PA is legal for SCR but if you avoid picking up trips because LGA is too far ...

And so "the lesson" is that there are places to live "in base" that limit ones options. (And yes, living close to LGA certainly limits ones options as well)

globetruck 12-04-2021 06:05 PM


Originally Posted by PA Slammer (Post 3330777)
Interesting to see all the GUM TDYs just posted.

Paying them to be based there… and them paying them more to send them to hubs that are too expensive for anyone to want to be based.

It’ll be interesting to see if other hubs will eventually get additional pay to be based there.


I’d guess no extra pay for other bases. Covid has decimated pacific flying but the company wants to keep the base full in order to rebound. They’d rather pay for qualified GUM pilots to go TDY elsewhere as opposed to getting caught without enough GUM pilots whenever the flying picks up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

flightmedic01 12-05-2021 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by ZeroTT (Post 3331066)
It was said "if you live in base you can pick up trips and build your own line"

Someone who described himself as living in base said "LGA is too far from Pennslyvania"

So yes, eastern PA is legal for SCR but if you avoid picking up trips because LGA is too far ...

And so "the lesson" is that there are places to live "in base" that limit ones options. (And yes, living close to LGA certainly limits ones options as well)

For sure, it is my decision to live where I do and to upgrade when I did. To be fair though, pre-Covid LGA flying on the Bus was around 25%, with it being over 40% now.

flightmedic01 12-06-2021 10:24 AM

I counted 88 Unfilled CA vacancies system wide on the first snapshot. Yeah, its still early in the game, but I believe this illustrates how pathetic narrowbody reserve can be.

GoCats67 12-06-2021 10:48 AM


Originally Posted by flightmedic01 (Post 3331737)
I counted 88 Unfilled CA vacancies system wide on the first snapshot. Yeah, its still early in the game, but I believe this illustrates how pathetic narrowbody reserve can be.

On the good news front this will hopefully "force" the company to move those Captain bids to bases that people are willing to bid on (IAH,ORD,DEN) and might even provide some pressure on the contract front.

Also very good news for those on the bottom of the list that are looking to lateral from their initial assignment back to home (or closer to it)
Unfilled 737 FOs -every where but DEN (and DEN is really close to going unfilled)
Unfilled 320 FOs - everywhere
Unfilled 756 FOs - everywhere but IAH and DEN

Good or Bad news depending on your perspective for upcoming new hires
Unfilled 777 FOs - EWR, DCA, SFO
Unfilled 787 FOs - EWR, DCA SFO

FriendlyPilot 12-06-2021 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by flightmedic01 (Post 3331737)
I counted 88 Unfilled CA vacancies system wide on the first snapshot. Yeah, its still early in the game, but I believe this illustrates how pathetic narrowbody reserve can be.

Unfilled Captain bids in LAX, SFO, DCA and EWR. Crazy times! Plus over 100 unfilled WBFO in SFO alone. Heard we are hiring 2,000 pilots next year and we have already hired over 1,100 this year already with another class of 50 starting tomorrow.

Fresh 12-06-2021 01:51 PM


Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot (Post 3331754)
Unfilled Captain bids in LAX, SFO, DCA and EWR. Crazy times! Plus over 100 unfilled WBFO in SFO alone. Heard we are hiring 2,000 pilots next year and we have already hired over 1,100 this year already with another class of 50 starting tomorrow.

We’ve hired 1300 pilots in 8 months. You’re correct about next year. The plan is to hire the entire year, full steam ahead.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:36 PM.


Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands