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-   -   Retired pilots in the sim is scope concession (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/138158-retired-pilots-sim-scope-concession.html)

CALPilotToo 06-27-2022 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by GoCats67 (Post 3449042)
Additionally remember that management controls the interview process of line pilots trying to become PIs. So, when the Union says "in case not enough pilots are interested" remember that actually means in case the company doesn't want to hire expensive line pilots when they can just actually hire inexpensive retired pilots.

This is a total Scope give and we will have given the control of how much scope entirely to the company with no restrictions other than having to advertise the jobs every two years only to have the company say not enough "qualified" applicants applied!!!

Exactly right. Total scope give. I’d be embarrassed to death knowing I was a union rep or leadership and effectively voted to end union jobs. Absolute horsesh!t and the entire NC, 16 reps and the Leadership need to be recalled now over this.

Steve Crewdog 06-27-2022 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 3448877)
^^THIS^^

We have hired over 5thousand pilots since the merger. What most of those pilots don't know is that FSB was something we Legacy Pilots did not have before C2012 and when questioned at one of the Road Shows, our own union stated-
"They'll never use it"

Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and Fly the Contract
Always
Motch


Sorry Bro, but lCal had it.

25-11-O-1: Should operations require, a Reserve Pilot may be used for “Airport Standby” duty.
1. The Duty Period as an Airport Standby is limited to five (5) hours. An
assigned Trip Pairing must have a scheduled departure within that period. If no
scheduled departure is assigned within the five (5) hour period, the pilot must
be released for at least the length of a Base Rest Period.
2. The five (5) hour Duty Period for a pilot on Airport Standby begins at Report
Time.

ytumama 06-27-2022 06:09 PM


Originally Posted by FAR121 (Post 3448880)
How is using 65+ guys in the sim scope concession? If anything it gives them another pathway vs being booted out after hitting 65.

Sorry homie thems the breaks. There are no 65 year old airline pilots. You do not give a job required to be filled by a seniority list pilot to a non-seniority list pilot. That is a concession.

ytumama 06-27-2022 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by GoCats67 (Post 3449042)
Additionally remember that management controls the interview process of line pilots trying to become PIs. So, when the Union says "in case not enough pilots are interested" remember that actually means in case the company doesn't want to hire expensive line pilots when they can just actually hire inexpensive retired pilots.

This is a total Scope give and we will have given the control of how much scope entirely to the company with no restrictions other than having to advertise the jobs every two years only to have the company say not enough "qualified" applicants applied!!!

I’d want published numbers of applications available to all and possibly a review of the apps/interview by an ALPA committee before conceding lack of interest.

UALinIAH 06-27-2022 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 3448954)
As a Legacy Continental Pilot, I do not recall FSB in the contract I was under from 2007 till 2012. If you had it, WHEN?
It seems that it was a concession to lower it to No Pay as it sits now, in your (And ALL Legacy United Pilots) case.

FS, FP & FtC
Motch

We had pure FSB lines at UAL back in the day. Paid 90 hrs. Went to the most senior reserves. Different times though. Not sure how it would go over in today’s PPU world.

horrido27 06-27-2022 08:14 PM


Originally Posted by UALinIAH (Post 3449812)
We had pure FSB lines at UAL back in the day. Paid 90 hrs. Went to the most senior reserves. Different times though. Not sure how it would go over in today’s PPU world.

was that part of you’re pre bankruptcy contract? Or 2000ish?

someone posted a pic of LUAL Pay Rates from your 2000 contract and it’s just nuts how LUAL pilots have still not fully recovered what they lost.

as far as FSB at LCAL, not sure which contract it was in there but if SCd says it was there, I don’t recall it in the contract in 07-12 and never sat airport reserve while a LCAL guy. Maybe I got lucky or it was a fleet thing..

Whiskeyjet1 06-29-2022 06:18 AM


Originally Posted by FlewNavy (Post 3448540)
TK manning is clearly the unions leverage behind this contract. The company recognizes this an never wants the union to have this leverage again - this is the reasoning behind the inclusion of the PUPs clause. If the company cannot staff the training center with the standard supply/demand that market economics decide within the seniority list than this clause allows an additional pool of labor that has zero leverage to make future changes.

Bingo. Nailed it.

baseball 06-29-2022 06:42 AM


Originally Posted by FlewNavy (Post 3448540)
TK manning is clearly the unions leverage behind this contract. The company recognizes this an never wants the union to have this leverage again - this is the reasoning behind the inclusion of the PUPs clause. If the company cannot staff the training center with the standard supply/demand that market economics decide within the seniority list than this clause allows an additional pool of labor that has zero leverage to make future changes.

Why is the MEC and the NC so focused on throwing away ALL OF OUR LEVERAGE? Seems they are working for management. Got Stockholm Syndrome?

Why can't the CAL pilots just simply have our LTD overpayments back with no strings attached? Clearly ALPA legal told them it was OK to release the money, otherwise it wouldn't be so obviously attached to the TA. Very dishonest and disingenuous in my opinion. Typically, when other forms of overpayment are concerned, I get a check back in a reasonable time frame once the error has been discovered and agreed to. WTF? That's a bad look.

fishforfun 06-29-2022 06:51 AM


Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 3449051)
At NWA, our contract required that not only did IPs have to be a seniority list pilot, it had to be a captain instructor. For every IP they hired, that meant they needed to add another captain position. This survived even bankruptcy.

After the merger, we went to the DAL language on this, and it was a major giveback worth probably 300 jobs.

I was wondering how this came about. I didn’t realize how big of a give this is. Guess there is no way to unring that bell.

UALinIAH 06-29-2022 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 3449874)
was that part of you’re pre bankruptcy contract? Or 2000ish?

someone posted a pic of LUAL Pay Rates from your 2000 contract and it’s just nuts how LUAL pilots have still not fully recovered what they lost.

as far as FSB at LCAL, not sure which contract it was in there but if SCd says it was there, I don’t recall it in the contract in 07-12 and never sat airport reserve while a LCAL guy. Maybe I got lucky or it was a fleet thing..

I don’t recall if it was C2000 or before. I am a 95 hire so it may have been the previous contract. We lost so much in bankruptcy that we are till trying to claw back. From C2000

B-2-b-
A reserve shall be limited to seventy-five (75) actual flight hours. A reserve may exceed the monthly credit limit as long as his actual projection does not exceed seventy-five (75) hours. However, a reserve may fly up to eighty-one (81) actual flight hours provided his flight pay credit does not exceed eighty-one (81) hours.

coupled with

5-G-5-b- A pilot on standby duty will receive five hours (5:00) pay credit and have his total allowable monthly flight time reduced by five hours (5:00) for each standby assignment which does not result in a flight assignment.

Made it so the scheduling really had to need a FSB to use it since they would be losing 5 hrs of availability for the month every time one was assigned. Hit those hours and you were off the rest of the month. Again different times now. Our mindset back then seemed to be “give me enough pay so that I don’t want to work extra” vs today’s love fest of PPU and getting max W2s


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