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-   -   A220 or Small Jet Equivalent (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/138444-a220-small-jet-equivalent.html)

SwaynesWorld 07-10-2022 11:29 AM

A220 or Small Jet Equivalent
 
Delta's 717 program has been incredibly profitable and their 220s appear to be so as well. Why is United so averse to flying small jets in house? Outsourcing via FFD contracts such as SkyWest have certainly has worked for United, but so it has with Delta. Why avoid the 100 seat niche?

KnightNight 07-10-2022 11:55 AM

A220 would be a great regional replacement, it is extremely fuel efficient.

Sunvox 07-10-2022 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by SwaynesWorld (Post 3458136)
Delta's 717 program has been incredibly profitable and their 220s appear to be so as well. Why is United so averse to flying small jets in house? Outsourcing via FFD contracts such as SkyWest have certainly has worked for United, but so it has with Delta. Why avoid the 100 seat niche?


Kirby has said on numerous occasions that the economics simply don't work. Regional pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, ground crew, and everyone involved are cheaper than they are at mainline and so the costs can't be brought in line. Now, that's what he says and NOT what I believe is true as evidenced by the simple fact that Delta has chosen to bring them in house.

Hedley 07-10-2022 12:15 PM


Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 3458167)
Kirby has said on numerous occasions that the economics simply don't work. Regional pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, ground crew, and everyone involved are cheaper than they are at mainline and so the costs can't be brought in line. Now, that's what he says and NOT what I believe is true as evidenced by the simple fact that Delta has chosen to bring them in house.

The cost of regional feed is going up. The AA regionals have really increased pilot cost, although temporarily, and our regionals are bleeding pilots as bad as all of the rest. If legacy hiring continues at this pace, the current regional model is not sustainable. I think that we will continue to take back flying, but Kirby has made his decision about the 100 seat market. Evidently the company feels that it is better to fly a max8 around with some empty seats than deal with the cost of another fleet type. Personally I prefer sticking to he 320/737 fleets…….they pay more.

rockelino 07-10-2022 03:47 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3458177)
The cost of regional feed is going up. The AA regionals have really increased pilot cost, although temporarily, and our regionals are bleeding pilots as bad as all of the rest. If legacy hiring continues at this pace, the current regional model is not sustainable. I think that we will continue to take back flying, but Kirby has made his decision about the 100 seat market. Evidently the company feels that it is better to fly a max8 around with some empty seats than deal with the cost of another fleet type. Personally I prefer sticking to he 320/737 fleets…….they pay more.

By that logic then UAL should buy the MAX7 and A318. Too bad it's not happening anytime soon.

TFAYD 07-10-2022 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3458177)
The cost of regional feed is going up. The AA regionals have really increased pilot cost, although temporarily, and our regionals are bleeding pilots as bad as all of the rest. If legacy hiring continues at this pace, the current regional model is not sustainable. I think that we will continue to take back flying, but Kirby has made his decision about the 100 seat market. Evidently the company feels that it is better to fly a max8 around with some empty seats than deal with the cost of another fleet type. Personally I prefer sticking to he 320/737 fleets…….they pay more.

the big variable in all of this is acquisition costs as well as fleet commonality. I am sure this works out well if you buy the max for the right price - which I believe we did

Hedley 07-10-2022 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by rockelino (Post 3458321)
By that logic then UAL should buy the MAX7 and A318. Too bad it's not happening anytime soon.

I asked one of the fleet managers why we weren’t interested in the Max7. He said that the price point between the 7 & 8 just didn’t make the Max7 attractive for our operation. It’s better to carry a few more empty seats in the max8 when you don’t need them and to have them when you do.

iahflyr 07-10-2022 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by SwaynesWorld (Post 3458136)
Delta's 717 program has been incredibly profitable and their 220s appear to be so as well.

Ummm…. Source??

sailingfun 07-11-2022 02:15 AM


Originally Posted by SwaynesWorld (Post 3458136)
Delta's 717 program has been incredibly profitable and their 220s appear to be so as well. Why is United so averse to flying small jets in house? Outsourcing via FFD contracts such as SkyWest have certainly has worked for United, but so it has with Delta. Why avoid the 100 seat niche?

“You sure about that Clark”?

Texasbound 07-11-2022 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3458549)
“You sure about that Clark”?

The points guy said it.. so that means it is true.


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