Fleet Comparisons
 

Tried the search function and didn’t get anything useful.

Is there a one-stop shop to analyze the advantages and disadvantages of each fleet? I know one person’s garbage is another’s gold, but I’d like to get some input I can use to make as informed a decision as possible.

Thanks I’m advance.

Doubt anyone has an entire world view of this.

But as a 737 guy, I can tell you about that.

Been based in the midwest for about a year. Seniority progression has been good in the past year I currently am bidding about 50% in base.

Can bid commutable trips, trip trading works well. Occasionally can drop trips.

Trip mix is generally 2 legs per day (sometimes 3, and rarely i’ve seen 4), 20-24 hours of credit for a 4 day. Some trips have 1 red eye on the go home leg which is nice for commuting purposes. Also, some trips exist that have a redeye in the middle and it’s normally a short AM flight, short layover, work the redeye flight outbound on the same calendar day (dayover).

Fair mix of domestic layovers, you’ll normally get a long layover on one day and a short on the other two. Depending on the base you can get a lot of latin america/carribean flying if that’s your thing. I avoid it for the most part. I’ve hit most of the system including the Azores, but not hawaii, south america, or alaska on this fleet.

So overall, decent QOL. Not the most efficient credit but plenty reasonable. You’ll find commutable trips generally have bad credit/short layovers but that’s just how things are unfortunately.

If you have 30 years of seniority, the 787 FO seat is fantastic! 8 years or less commuting to global reserve and your relationships are actively deteriorating. You will be allowed about one conjugal visit per week.

I’m not quite at 6 months yet but FWIW, when I was hired people were speaking of getting lines at coastal bases right off OE on the 73. At the same time had a friend waiting almost 6 months (paid) for OE to begin on the 756. Presently, the left coast 73 bases are overstaffed for FOs and many are having trouble consolidating. I am closer to the G line on the 777 in SFO than I am in either of the left coast 737 bases, and those junior 777 lines are about the same for commutability and days off as the junior 737 lines. Global vs basic reserve is a consideration…but not for a lineholder…

Point being times are weird and anything you hear now probably won’t still be true in 3-4 months.

This ^^^^

Corollary: What was true 6 months ago let alone 6 years ago is no longer true. There is not reliable information about what X choice will likely mean to your life 12 months hence.


But... if you bid 737/A320 and want to move to something bigger you can. If you bid 777 or 787 you're staying there two years.

Thanks. All that makes sense. I’m looking at 737 vs 320. No interest in commuting (especially for reserve), so not considering WB. I’ll be driving from DFW to IAH short term, but we will move to DEN or DC eventually.

Not if you bid the next seat over when you are sick of sitting rsv.

As someone who's contemplating a move to IAH, why are you only considering DEN or DC? Worries me a little coming from a Texan.

As a Texan nothing is wrong with DEN or DC….

Cool thanks

I was asking the OP because he said he was living in DFW but didn't list IAH as a consideration for moving

If those are the places he’s considering over Texas, then those are probably the best places for him to be…

I get it. The wife and I spent 24 years moving every 2-3 years and we get restless. She hates DFW and I don’t have ties here. We grew up in Houston and it’s not what we remember it as. We enjoyed our time in Northern Va. and her best friend is still there. We’ve never lived in Colorado and would like to give it a shot. San Diego was our favorite place and LAX might be good for seniority movement, but I’m not trying to live there on first year pay.

Apologies for being nosy. I've never been to Houston but was strongly considering relocation from the PNW just to live in base.

I’m happy to give you my personal opinions on it if you want to DM.

I can tell you one thing-if you live in dfw the Denver commute is much, much easier than iah unless you plan to drive. For reference, I commute to Denver but occasionally
pick up iah trips.

Won’t be staying in DFW.

Hi everyone,

Gathering information about QOL in California, as a "new hire". I see the possible assignment of 737 LAX or SFO.
I'll be move to base, period.
Any big difference between these bases? ( type of flying/destinations, movement of seniority, cost of living, traffic to work, etc)
I will probably try to rent a place within 45"/1:15' driving time from the airport.
A friend is telling me that SFO is a big base for the 737, moving fast...and LAX is stagnant? Is SFO probably the best base to be a "line holder" during your first year?
Thank you!!!

Tangalanga

Any 756 info? Specifically out of IAH or EWR?

Probably because they’ve been to Houston.

What do you want to know about 756 EWR flying? It’s in my opinion some of the best flying in the system……. It’s all Europe with some domestic and trans cons mixed in. Because it’s EWR, if you commute to reserve up there. It will hurt, you will see short call conversions unless you aggressive pick up trips.

Before any new hire gets gung-ho about the 75/6 fleet, consider the corollary of the first statement. What's true now and what was true in the past will not be true 12 to 36 months in the future...

The 321XLRs and NEOs will change things. As will the increasing 787s. These deliveries will have the most profound effect on the 75/6 fleet.

DEN 787 flying? How long to get in there/hold a line? What kind of flying?

This is very true, but it is safe we will not see major changes to the 756 fleet for the next 2 years in my opinion. The XLRs will not be on property for awhile. NEOs will not be on property in meaningful numbers for a couple years. Those 787s that were recently ordered will not be start showing up this year.

So 2 years. Then 756 folks will need to start looking to make moves.

You aren't going to be able to afford living in the Bay Area or anywhere close to LAX on first year FO pay. That's assuming you don't want to live in a hood and risk getting shanked on your way to and from work.

To get in, maybe a couple years?

To hold a line? 485 years.

To hold Captain, just before the sun goes nova.

Thank you. I'm trying not to make my decisions based on "first year pay". I can deal with 12 months period with other resources. But no, I don't want to leave around a dangerous area.
I'm thinking that making the effort ( residing in an expensive area) the first year can be beneficial on the long term or near future (seniority progression and everything that comes with it mostly)
I gatter for what you say that there is not much difference between LAX and SFO?
Thanks

Tangalanga

Denver is crazy senior on 787, a base trade could help but I wouldn’t gamble that. Best bet is bid 737/320 then bid 787 in Denver when you can. Another route is bid 787 , hope for base trade and after a year bid 787 instructor, but wouldn’t recommend that over route 1. The plane will always be there.

No need to be on the 787 fleet to apply (not bid) to be an instructor. Very common for people wanting to work at TK to apply to every single opening on every fleet. If another fleet likes you, they will get you trained and consolidated before starting the instructor syllabus.

True, I should have added that. Time in type is preferred tho 🤷🏻‍♂️

Gotta love trying to learn an airplane from an instructor with very little experience actually flying it. To be an instructor there should be time in type requirement like there is to be a LCA.

Agree. The challenge for the company is how to pry them out of a lineholding right seat.

THIS!
As someone who went through two full training cycles at TK last year, I can attest to the problems with instruction now.
While 98% were great, there was definitely a difference in instructions from those who had time and had flown the aircraft operationally, and those who had not.

But just as the PROFIT SHARING Thread shows, the view from management is- it doesn’t matter and it’s important to place the blame on the union and away from the suites.

I understand that new(ish),younger pilots may be giddy with being an instructor on heavy metal.. at 9th yr FO pay.
But what ever happened to being a Pilot?!

It use to be-
You needed High Multi Time
High Flight Time
TPIC Time
4yr College degree
Clean Record

to be hired…
and as such, you received-
Decent pay (increasing with seniority)
Decent Quality of Life
A Pension when you retired at 60

The second part was taken away at many carriers due to bankruptcy. But there was a drive to get them back~
Now the first part is no longer true so the second part won’t be true either.

Not trying to thread drift.
someone posted the pay/hour difference between being a line holder vs a TK instructor.
someone else mentioned being home every night.
You be the judge but it would seem to me, being a junior TK instructor is losing a lot of QoL for pay.
Should you have the option to choose.. sure.
But again, were you hired as a Professional Airline Pilot or to be an instructor?

If our company won’t set any “standards”*, do we as individuals need to set the standards?

food for thought.
Always
Motch

*2 years flying the line, 1000hrs in type.

*2 years flying the line, 1000hrs in type.

Is a fair ask in my opinion.

Sorry for my ignorance and questions, I did not join yet.

FOs can be instructors at United?
What are the minimum requirements?
Can you be an instructor in a fleet that you are not actually flying? New FO with previous experience on 777 for example, but flying the 320 on property.
How about your base? Must be based at Denver to do it or how it works?
How about pay?
Thank you!!

Tangalanga

You have to be in your 9th year to make 9 year FO pay. That is the cap, not the standard rate.

Reads Motch's post, and goes-

"Wait, I can be a 777 PI as a new hire? Details?"

I just found that funny, sorry lol.

I remember going through fleet training with a PI who was a new hire PI on the 747 and in the 30 years since had never left the building. I certainly agree that there should be some standard for flying the aircraft you are training people to fly and at some point actually flying the line.

What if you bid captain?

If you want the seat and pay then you leave the training center and go fly as a CA. You’re PI pay is ALWAYS based on your “year” of service up to 9 years. Then you go up to what you can hold as an FO and stop there. Make sense?

edited for clarity

You must be off probation, and apply for and be hired as an instructor. Pay is 90 hours at whatever aircraft you could hold, regardless of what you actually fly. So any 737 instructor with a pulse could hold a 777 FO right now, therefore they get paid as if they're a WB FO, capped at the 9 year mark. A 2 year 73 TI is paid as a 2 year 777 FO x 90 hrs a month. A 12 year FO only makes the 9 year pay band. Most instructors seem to be in that "I could be a CA, but why sit on reserve forever" niche