When do we find out how much we get?

Looks like just below 700m at 7-8%. Based off the full year and precedence. The call tomorrow will show the final figure.

Thanks for the lesson and I'm gonna go back to my HS English teacher and punch him square in the face! ;-)

That plan checks wonderfully with your avatar; I appreciate the motif.

That right there is the attitude that makes a lot of new pilots absolutely resent the old guard. He helped contribute to 363 days of United finances. It should be pro rated but the “we have always done it that way” attitude reigns supreme.

Therein lies one of the problems.
He/she DID NOT “help contribute to 363 days of United Finance’s ”. The pilot started to contribute to our bottom line when, and only when - they were turning a wheel and making money for the company. And they were not alone. As someone who did 2 full training courses this past year, I too did not create revenue for the company during that time. Difference is, I (and everyone here for the full year of 2022) will be eligible for (what little there is of) Profit Sharing. It is what has been negotiated and agreed upon.

This subject comes up every single year around this time.
Do I agree with it 100%, no.
But where do YOU want to draw the line.
Should your example get a pro rated amount? Maybe.
should the pilot who retired on Dec 29, 2022 get a pro rated amount? More than maybe.

Are YOU going to accept a smaller amount in your PS so others get something?

Not a slam here, but I would encourage you to present a resolution at your next local council meeting suggesting just that.
If the company is going to give the pilot group x amount of money, then see about changing the way it’s divided amongst this pilot group.

Motch

PS) Proud to be an “old guard” but my meaning is probably different that yours. Just remember, in about 20 years most of the legacy pilots will be gone. And IF there is a merger between now and then (very likely) just remember your views today when someone younger and of a different group calls you out, and “resents” you,

As a side note, the 29 Dec retiree would in fact get PS with the new DAL TA, and that should absolutely also be the case here.

Okay, how about profit sharing be handled by number of days worked in the year. Regardless of years served.

I'm not a fan of pilots not voting until off probation, nor of them not getting profit sharing or any of the other rewards of working for this company. The gate they had to pass was getting hired and trained here. After that they're our peers. Full stop.

As someone who's been in this industry for several decades and seen far too much old guard rhetoric, I will say all it does it diminish new hires respect of us. And well deserved at that.

Fix reserve rules for those that come after us and for those below us in seniority. Fix voting rights, and fix profit sharing. Let's make this the place people want to work by showing everyone who comes that we value them as equals.

So where do you come down on reserves based on this "creating revenue" line of reasoning? What if your fleet is retired (RIP -400) and you have a training cycle as a result of a displacement? No profit sharing for that period?! If you're showing up to work, and the business is profitable, you are a part of that success and you deserve your piece of profit sharing. Plain and simple.

Now we're going to encourage people to work while sick so they can qualify for max number of days worked? Or fly fatigued? Wait, don't we get more vacation weeks as we gain years of service? So then we'd earn less profit sharing?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out that there are many unforseen consequences of these ideas. In my opinion, best to leave it as a percentage of yearly flight pay. Don't go devaluing our other benefits like sick bank and vacation that we fought hard for!!

​​​​​​​Credit to Motch for suggesting the proper path: a resolution at your next council meeting.

Well, that is the question. When does someone “create revenue”. Is it actually turning a wheel? Is it being full qualified & ready to fly?
Again, in your scenario- when the whale was retired, hundreds of pilots had to go to training… however, prior to that they had been fully qualified and ready to fly. But the reason they get PS is because it has been decided to treat them in one way vs someone who is still on Probation.
We CAN change that, just takes some effort. Hence why I write - “submit a resolution “

That is something I have NEVER advocated.
I feel it should be based on a time limit.. ie, time served (lol). Just feel that there is definitely a difference between Pilot A who got hired here in January and is still a probie vs Pilot B who has been here 20+ years and retired in Dec. (and wasn’t a SCAB!)

Interesting discussion. Sometimes the way it is, is because someone in the past HAD to make a call (at the time) and we have decided as a whole to continue with that Path.
Just food for thought. Someone I know was hired in early 2022. Been on the line since Sept.
Should he get a bit of the PS?
He is leaving for Delta next week!
Do we give him a few hundred bucks? It’s only a few hundred bucks….

Therein lies the problem. At what point do we take from Peter (no pun intended) to pay Paul?
Delta has always been an amazing airline, in my opinion. But where they have treated PS one way, they have also treated new hires a different way (ie, for the longest time the new hire had to pay for their own hotel room). Did not happen to me at CAL nor do I believe that it was happening at UAL back in the 2000’s/2010’s.

with all (else) that is going on right now with our union and ILC23, maybe this second isn’t the time for it. But once we HAVE our new UPA, someone who feels very passionate about this should try to change it.

Motch

PS) (ironically!). I betting around 2-3% for our 2022 Profit sharing. It’s something.. but nothing compared to the Industry Leading Contract 2023 we deserve and will hopefully have by June~

I am 2007 United Hire. Definitely had to pay for own lodging from indoc through qual training.

However, that did not factor into my decision when I looking at multiple offers from CAL/DAL/UAL.

Likewise, whether or not I would receive profit sharing did not factor in my decision. I never plan on getting it just like I don’t plan on getting Social Security when I retire.

I’ll take better pay rates and work rules over profit sharing any day.

Motch’s advice to present a resolution is the correct path forward. Complaining about it here is akin to shaking your fist at the rain. It won’t get you anywhere and you’ll still be wet.

This times 1,000 ^^^^. I will never understand someone being ****ed at someone else because “they got a better deal.” If you got a 777 bid as a new hire….good for you. Have a great attitude and willingness to learn and it will be good. It’s not 1990 anymore.

As far as their “days worked” comment, you can’t get off probation until 12 bid periods AND 165 days worked. And days waiting for IOE don’t count.

so maybe there’s something to that. Anyway…I’ll bring it up to my reps….when I’m off probation…..and when I get some reps.

what’s that old saying- “You only know what you know, and you don’t know what you don’t know!
I always knew about the Delta new hire Hotel thing..did NOT know that Legacy United did it too. Wonder when it changed or if it was a result of the merger, and CAL having it while UAL didn’t.

^This^
There seems to be an attitude from the millennial generation (many.. but not all!) that they want what someone else has- now! Not waiting till it’s their turn, but now.

From a Union point, that doesn’t bode well for the future.
As a side note for the new pilots reading this who might be “pi&&ed off” next month- keep in mind that almost EVERY Capt now is spending twice what they use to on food & drink while on the overnight. Why? Cause it’s tradition to pay for that when flying with a probie! And it’s something that (probably) 98% of us do without blinking an eye! (And many senior FO’s occasionally do it to). Haven’t seen any Captain on here F’ing complain about that.

For ALL our new pilots.
F’ing CONGRATS. Ya made it to the Major League!
Enjoy, have fun.. learn.
But understand that everything (both good and bad) has a price and a history.
Change will come from within, and change takes some time.
Get involved~ (not just on a bs “for pleasure/laughable” forum)

Oh, and
Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and
Fly The Contract

Motch

Not having reps is an issue, being on probation isn’t. A probationary pilot is just as much a United pilot as the rest of us. New hires should feel free to contact reps and voice their opinion. Currently probationary pilots can’t vote or participate in profit sharing because that is what is written in the contract. Without enough people becoming more engaged in their union, nothing is going to change.

So all of this folks on LTD…not producing an ounce of revenue get cut out of the proffy. I think that’s pretty fair. Thoughts?

Maybe even those full time 90+ hr ALPA reps who never fly the line. Might motivate them to fly once or twice between their duties.

no complaints, makes sense to me.

So…when do I see a some money?! 🫠

I’m pretty sure the folks on LTD (myself included) won’t get profit sharing, at least on their LTD payments. LTD payments don’t come from UAL.

2022 was my first year on LTD. I had sick leave in January and vacation payout in September, so I may get profit sharing on that but I’m not expecting it on my LTD payments.

I’ll answer this for sure in a month or so.

Well I'm glad I don't work at United. Your culture sounds like crap.

I think you’ll find that for any airline here on APC. My time at UAL has been great so far. Lots of wonderful people and great Captains I’m flying with.

Respectfully, based on the logic of some, those who go on maternity leave should not be eligible, nor should those who are on a LOA, or those who enter training. Because these people are not available for flying the entire year, they should be ineligible for profit sharing. What if you bid reserve the entire year because you live in base and only want to work enough to keep current? One could argue that those individuals contribute less than others. You want my solution? If you were on property, you are eligible. But in the end, nothing will change, ALPA will protect those who are senior and use the mentality of "paying your dues" because those before you had to do it too. Soon there will be a recognition that recycling the people and policies of the past will no longer be tolerated. The youth is taking over the legacy airlines and they will soon have the voting power to affect meaningful change.

The lack of paid work is already accounted for. PS is based on your eligible earnings. If you didn’t work, like on a LOA or have exlcluded earnings like maternity leave, you’re not getting paid for those times.

“[size=12pt]Only regular pay (while not on leave) and pay received from your sick or vacation bank will be considered when calculating profit sharing.[/size]For employees on a medical leave, profit sharing will be paid on eligible earnings received while an active employee and while using sick time.”

The only consternation should be with new hires. Everyone else is getting paid (or not) for their actual work.

United Airlines expects to quadruple profit in 2023

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...it-2023-01-17/

Wow. I wonder if SK could see this motoring down the pike when he tried to get us to sign off on the TUMI TA...

You mean when “our” union tried to get us to sign off on the TUMI TA?

Technically Kirby didn’t try to get us to do anything. It was our union that was selling a garbage agreement. Kirby was just going let us vote in a bad deal and laugh all the way to the bank.

Here here!

Of course he did.. remember just a couple months before the AIP the union said they were "still far apart with the company" ...

Then all of a sudden.. the company wanted a deal done asap- the Tumi TA, which "we better take with a recession around the corner." I am convinced they saw the bookings and the writing on the wall that they would be printing money and wanted to get us cheap and early.

Good leads the way

100% he did. MEC failed us. Especially the guy who was in charge. Wonder what was in it for him… 🤔

LOL..
Thanks dude/dudette/something else…
I (and others, probably) needed a good laugh today.

We’ve got a whole thread on pilots excited to get their class date here, and over the past year have hired over 2000 pilots. If our “culture is crap”, guess that makes a lot of us garbage men and women!

Motch

https://youtu.be/JK0CL7bHbII

It's amazing how many people on here and other United forums constantly advocate for worse benefits and QOL for the fellow pilots they work with just because "that's the way it's always been". They are truly of a different generational mindset and there's no point in trying to debate them or change their point of view. Luckily they will be outnumbered soon enough.

Profit sharing is a contractually negotiated item. 1). Last year’s profit will be distributed as the contract stipulates. It was voted on and agreed to, either by directly voting on the contract or acceptance of the job.
2).The gate a pilot passes includes probation. Some have not passed that gate. It is there for a reason. You are not fully a peer till you pass that gate. Full Stop.

What’s with your Full stop comment?

He’s right about the contract issue though. If you want to change profit sharing, voting rights, etc, then get enough people to pressure their reps and the MEC to instruct the negotiating committee to change the wording in future contracts.

See the post I quoted.

Profit Sharing is contractual, voting rights are governed by ALPA. The process to change either is basically the same at the line pilot level though. Call your rep, go to a meeting, etc.

I don’t think there is some grand moral argument against newbies getting profit sharing, it’s just the way the program was designed. It’s not like you are really missing out all that much. You might not get a check this Feb, but your check will be bigger every Feb from here on out. Whether it balances out or not depends on UAL profits and how many are hired every year.

If you don’t want to treat a probationary pilot as a full peer, then said pilot should not be obligated to listen to your stories of your boats, ex-wives, airplane hangar toys, and homes in Sanibel and Vail. “Well Mr. Kirby I don’t think this rule should apply to me. You see, he said I’m not a full peer, therefore I don’t have to be fully responsible.”

I’d argue that MOST (definitely not all) of the bottom 3k guys that had furloughs letter made that last LOA pass and gave us all worse for a couple years. The older guys are not immune from this but I’m not sure you’re accurate on who would vote in a crap contract. 94% of us agreed on Tumi. That would be indicative and I’d love to know who the 6% were that voted yes? Perhaps TK FO’s? Nah.

I’m sure some in TK liked it enough but plenty see themselves going back to the line sooner or later and the rest of the TA was what 94% of us agreed was trash. Plus I think most people don’t vote with a “me and only me” mindset. That said, even section 23 had WTF gives like 2 extra hours of reserve availability that make a difference when all the reserve is effectively short call.

Literally how in the world did we get presented with something that had concessions around every corner. Worth noting, read the red-line version of whatever we get next. Plenty didn’t make it to the PowerPoint highlights.