Profit Sharing?
 

I really have not been paying too close attention but it seems we might pull a yearly profit. I know we had a terrible 1Q but I think we did ok in 2Q and 3Q. If 4Q is good, and I think it should be, maybe we will get a check?

So at the end of the 3rd quarter we were break even. Wall Street is expecting us to make around 700 million.

my guess and it’s only a guess ~2% depending on what we make minus special charges.

This is what we know so far. If we did as well as Delta and American in Q4 then hopefully we might actually see a decent check in the 3% range. Would be nice!

2%
my guess


However retro
Anything less than 14/5/5/18
2019,20,21,22 and partial 23
Will be unacceptable

As spoken by a higher-up at TK, "Kirby doesn't do retro because it incentivizes the pilot group to delay negotiations."

Yes, that was actually said.

If true, comments like that concern me for our future. Retro just recoups Section 3 losses. Nevermind the rest of the contract we don't benefit from after the amendable date including the 16% company 401k contribution.

Was this a senior TK shuttle driver?

No. This was said during their "please come be an instructor" thing last September.

What was the response from the crowd when that statement was made? Nodding in agreement, complicit silence, or comments of "You have got to be kidding me"

They were all on probation at the time so most likely nodding in agreement followed by WTF comments in the Dtree bar.

I was still in shock that he actually answered a question about the contract instead of just answering questions about being a TK instructor.

He’s not wrong. Zero retro or signing bonus would incentivize closing quicker for the employee. Full retro incentivizes taking all the time it needs and pressures the company. That said full retro or equivalent please.

Hubris. They're managers and we're widgets to be managed.

He doesn’t have to believe in it but it will still be a “thing” 😎

Politely disagree. That would be true if we were signing a Todd extension and considering the time value of money. A true Section 6 involves more than wages and any retro that would result in the future. Full retro would force the company to compensate us for lost wages. The company is still saving a metric ton of money by delaying thus relieving the pressure you speak of.

Essentially, we're being ripped off every contract.

United is behind its peers for NB pay rates. Alaska is earning more right now. Spirit and Jet Blue will be voting soon. Here's the breakdown...

Alaska: +8%, Spirit: +6%, JetBlue: +17%.

Why is United earning less than these peers? If Kirby doesn't do retro that's understandable. That's not normally done in the LCC segment of the industry. Our NB rates should be within a couple of percent of Spirit at worst. JB is probably unsustainable. I understand that. But this is ridiculous.

Do you still get to participate in profit sharing if you are on leave but were active part of the year? Is it pro-rated?

Yes. PS is paid based on what percent of payroll your annual salary represents so if you earn less you get less, but still in proportion to what you earned relative to the total pie of payroll.

Thank you. Was hoping it would work something like that.

I suspect you consider yourself witty, but I'm afraid your sarcasm is usually lost in translation and honestly you have shown a distinct ability to add less than zero to this otherwise entertaining and sometimes informative forum. I bet you were a "meow" guy back in your RJ days. Goes to show how worthless the Hogan test is.

based on your W2 for 2022

And a new hire has to be property a full calendar year to be eligible.

which sucks. Get hired Jan2, too bad. Gotta wait a whole other year to get PS. Delta pro-rates theirs.

Delta is hiring.

Worthless is dependent on intentions. I think the Hogan throughput has been exactly how the assessment was designed. Especially considering the large applicant pool in the past. If pilot recruitment targets outweigh the selective nature of the Hogan then it's results would be of secondary value.

Do you think it unreasonable to pay profit sharing out based on a % of flight pay for the year, regardless of the time(calendar year rule)?

Do you think a "new hire who onboarded in the 1st week of Jan doesn't deserve to get his share of PS because his contribution was meaningless?

Is your thinking biased because, if PS is paid out like Delta, you might get fewer shekels at the expense of the "new hire"?

Do you think your view is considered as "pulling up the ladder"?

If every pilot thought like you seem to, would you ever make strides to better the profession?

Do you think the way UAL does it is fair/righteous/respectful to all employees?

Do you think, "Well I got screwed, therefore let's continue to foist this on the new guys"?

Did I ask if maybe you getting a few more/less pennies in your pocket might bias your thinking?

As a Delta guy, just some of the thoughts/questions that crossed my mind after reading your less than fleshed out comment.

I hope your new "team" looks at the bar that Delta sets with our new TA, and negotiates up from there....the profession will be better for it.

PS...and FFS, if you don't get DC on profit sharing ...get it !!!

I finally got an answer from our NC on my question regarding this. Turns out the calculation is done post determination of the profit sharing pool. Meaning given equal payouts Delta pilots would get less after tax to make up for the amount paid into the DC. You can still argue this is better since net-net the Delta method results in less tax and more money, but it's not straight up 16% as some think.

Todd Insler. Next question?

Spirit pilots voted almost a week ago.

You don't work for Delta!

I suppose my comment could be construed as you described. However, the point I was trying to make was that I am surprised and shocked that a pilot new on property would “complain” about something such as profit sharing. You just won the equivalent to “airline pilot jackpot.” Have some humility, strive to better the profession throughout your career, but don’t whine about a benefit that many of us on property couldn’t capitalize on either. Know your audience. That’s all I’m saying. And no, “pulling up the ladder” is always a bad thing and a gross mischaracterization.

It is ladder pulling though. I've been in this industry 20 years and have been qualified to vote for exactly two contracts, neither of which passed. So I have never, not once in 20 years, worked under a contract I voted for. 20 years in and still none of this is my fault. If I could point the finger at me I would. I'd love that privilege.

Fair points all around. I didn't take JTwift's comments as a newbie complaining. My interpretation was merely sharing information with an element of c'est la vie. I don't know a lot about how PS works so I appreciate all the info, and since we're in negotiations, it's also interesting hearing how it works elsewhere. Not something I would have thought of before and I haven't heard it talked about other than here.

i’m not *****ing about the profit sharing, but I am disappointed. I’m now finally starting to “earn” the right to get it next year, even though I worked my butt off nearly the entire 2022 (but not quite enough to earn PS, I guess).

I want us to get better mainly because I want more pilots to choose United, which will help us grow and make things better for everyone.

that’s the same reason I want better reserve rules. I’m not on reserve anymore, but I definitely haven’t forgotten how much it sucked. I don’t want anyone else to go through that. Also, it makes life better for the senior/line holding people (especially captains). When people upgrade into reserve and we don’t have anymore unfilled CA vacancies, you’ll quit getting those 90 hour lines and you’ll have more ability to trade/drop, etc.

I don’t get the “I got mine” crowd. Help others get better and it’ll trickle up, so to speak.

No doubt we are on the same page actually. I am no longer on reserve either, although I believe our reserve rules are dismal at best. I believe through unity we can make United the place to hang your hat for an airline career. Let’s not squabble over little things

What a truly idiotic thing to say! You do realize you’re arguing against the interest of your own pilot group by not wanting to prorate PS, right? But your bruised ego only let you utter this caveman grunt reaction.

I wasn’t arguing the point of prorated PS. I was simply inferring that a person new on property shouldn’t be b*****ing about not getting PS when he/she should be glad they won the lottery. And I don’t even get the “bruised ego” comment. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

You used inferring incorrectly.

Implying rather??

Correct. For example, the Company just posted a FY22 net income of $737M, with a pre-tax margin of 2.2%. I will infer that we will be receiving a small profit sharing check.