ObiOne

That's not really true at this point. It's not necessarily the norm, but if you go to a hiring event or two and have no 121 failures you have a chance of getting the Hogan at 2500 TT.

CRJJ

It sure is nowadays. Plenty of friends hired with 2500ish, and I got the leadership inventory invitation 4 days ago, and I have 2,200h, no military background, no LORs and no degree. I’m a white male, just in case.

MacrossJet

I thought in today's wild world, with people getting 1000 turbine time in the right seat, or less at their regional or ULCC that 2500 tt. was now competitive. Currently, what are competitive total times at UA? Thanks for your post. I do appreciate it.

3redpapi

If one was hired today at 32 years old, what number would they retire at?

TOGALOCK

That may be true, but you don’t live in “today’s” hiring world, you live in whatever hiring world it will be at the time you qualify to apply and be hired at whatever is competitive at the time. What that will be when the time comes - nobody knows. The historical norm is that 1200-1500 hours just barely qualified you to fly cancelled checks in a single engine Cessna. Then after a few years and 500 hours or so of multi time you got hired flying a metro or a 1900 making 15k/yr and, if you were lucky, DIDN’T have to pay for your own type rating to do so. Then after 5-6 years of that you might be lucky to get hired by a major. Minimums started to eventually drop and there was a small blip in time right before the recession where people got on at the regionals with 250 hours and a wet commercial certificate. Eventually the ATP rule went into effect and the new generation of pilots lost their minds over having to build 1500 hours of experience to get into an RJ. Now we’re at a point where 22 year old kids with 6 months in the right seat of an RJ and no college degree are strapping into the right seat of a 777.

My point of the above is not to make the “we all did it this way so you should too” rant. Quite the opposite… I’m very happy for todays generation of upcoming pilots, but understand that the winds can change quickly and 10000 hours, a PhD and a moon landing may be what’s required. The best thing you can do right now is concentrate on becoming a competent pilot who’s able to be a valuable first officer and able to handle any situation. Not race the clock to catch the wave and be a lump of meat in the right seat. I promise that at 500 hours, although you may feel otherwise, you’re still not completely sure which end of the plane is the front or the back. Enjoy the journey.

Will you still hit the wave? Probably. Will you hit the wave mid way? Probably not. You’ll be towards the back. You’ll probably find yourself having to make the choice between being a senior FO with a great quality of life and making a butt load of money, and being a junior captain for eternity with poor quality of life but even more money. Not a bad position to be in at all!

Also, keep in mind that today’s desired destinations are not tomorrow’s.

FedEx and UPS were never really on the radar for a lot of people. Covid happened, they thrived, for some reason people get it in their heads that cargo is infallible (which is completely untrue historically) and they became the hot places… Now FedEx won’t be hiring for years and lucky if they don’t furlough.

SWA was an okay airline and then eventually became someplace that had the highest paid 737 pilots in the industry and most pilots would have sold their first born to work there. Now, people are bailing out of SWA and they’re having trouble attracting new talent.

Delta was always good, but didn’t carry the “Delta or bust” cult following that it does today amongst the younger generation of pilots. Im honestly not really sure what triggered that koolaid in flight schools.

F9 and NK never have been, and still aren’t, the “cool” places to be, but people hired between 5-8 years ago have seen sky rocketing seniority, have a great quality of life, and make great money.

By the time you qualify to apply in a few years everything will be different. Maybe F9 has a competitive contract, still growing quickly, and can offer a base where you live, while at the same time UAL is struggling. Those are waters you will have to check out *when* you finally get there. The only thing that is guaranteed in this life and career is change. By the time you qualify to apply for your retirement job the industry and hiring will be different and your own life will be different as well. Your wants and desires now will likely not be the same in a few years.

Always aim for the stars so when you fall short you still land on the moon, but try to slow your roll a little. Become a competent pilot and enjoy the ride to get there. One thing I’ve learned in the industry is that the more you try to control your path the less happy you’re going to be. Go with the flow and it will all work out. Luck is all that will determine your success in this industry, not the “choices” you make now. When you make your retirement flight you’ll know if you got lucky in your career or not.

Bahamasflyer

That was me recently. 25XX TT civilian, with no 4 yr degree nor TPIC and i attended a hiring event with 1 internal LOR. Had the invite 3 weeks later. Very realistic. Also a white male.

RippinClapBombs

Now that I’ve “been there done that”. It’s less about your overall stats and more about your current employer. If you can navigate yourself to a LCC or ACMI you’ll be competitive with 2,500h total.

I had 3,200h total, 2,200h turbine, 600h TPIC, multiple type ratings, zero 121 failures, zero check ride failures, zero driving infractions, 4 year degree in Aviation from a 141 flight school with decent grades. Attended a meet and great, 5 LoR’s, 1 of those recommendation letters was from a UAL 777 CA and previous LCA for over 15 years who sat in my jumpseat. I was a CA at SkyWest flying specifically United Express. AAL, DAL, and SWA sent invites with those stats (- the LoR’s), UAL did not.

If you’re not employed at United Express operator 2,500h should be competitive. If you’re employed at a United Express operator 2,500h is competitive for AAL and DAL. That’s just the pilot market, it’s crazy but awesome.

MacrossJet

I wish this site had a "like" button. I'd like this post. Thanks for your kind words.

GunsUp77

I'm showing retirement around #1,070 company-wide. 4/25 hire and turning 32 in June to give a rough idea.

Brickfire

Just to be a statistic nerd

“The average age is Xx so yyy hours isn’t competitive” doesn’t really make sense

A lot of people are going to get hired with less than average stats

“Competitive” will be some fraction of average. And everything is pointing toward an unrestricted ATP and a year experience flying something in the flight levels more or less being competitive