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Originally Posted by Justabusdriver1
(Post 3639514)
except these companies can arbitrarily assign a cost to any provision. It’s not something like retirement, hard or soft pay that have actual quantifiable value. It’s the qol items, short call conversion, airport standby etc that they just make up a value to either have it or get rid of it. UAL can and may very well put an exorbitant cost on those old rules.
The one thing that I am confident in….. we could get industry leading in every possible way but lose the dry cleaning allowance and APC would go on for pages about how the agreement is a concession. |
Originally Posted by LAXtoDEN
(Post 3639409)
This is your problem, you make assumptions based on little information then start acting like you have a clue about anything other than drinking that United kool-aid. Scary stuff to have a simpleton like you anywhere near the flight deck. Congrats on being the number 1 for flying over the warmer pond? Weird flex. Even weirder now that you’re dead last to a contract.
LAX to DEN was my first flight as a kid. I drive to work at Delta. At the age I was hired I’ll be flying WB… from the left seat. You done now clown? |
Originally Posted by Hedley
(Post 3639519)
The one thing that I am confident in….. we could get industry leading in every possible way but lose the dry cleaning allowance and APC would go on for pages about how the agreement is a concession. Well, I'm not about to start doing my own ironing. They can proceed as they see fit. |
Originally Posted by Hedley
(Post 3639510)
No, I’ve just been down this road a few times. Delta didn’t get all that they wanted, and we won’t either. Parts of our next deal will be industry leading, parts won’t, but to think that we’ll get a deal that exceeds American and Delta in every possible way is foolish. The total package will contain significant improvements in all sections, just not everything that we would like. The cutoff will be total cost. We are simply not going to get a deal, with or without mediation, that far exceeds American and Delta in total cost. We will get one that will be on par with or slightly more. How we allocate those cost between the sections is up to our negotiating committee and MEC.
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Originally Posted by Hedley
(Post 3639519)
The one thing that I am confident in….. we could get industry leading in every possible way but lose the dry cleaning allowance and APC would go on for pages about how the agreement is a concession. So what message should we be unifying ourselves on- the fact that a few APC jockeys have unrealistic expectations, or the fact that our company is trying to sell us on a few extra dollars & the worst labor contract in the industry? We don’t need people doing the company’s PR work for them. Get behind the union & hold management to account for their promises. |
Originally Posted by hummingbear
(Post 3639538)
So what message should we be unifying ourselves on- the fact that a few APC jockeys have unrealistic expectations, or the fact that our company is trying to sell us on a few extra dollars & the worst labor contract in the industry? We don’t need people doing the company’s PR work for them. Get behind the union & hold management to account for their promises. |
Originally Posted by Hedley
(Post 3639557)
I also understand that the limiting factor to an agreement at any airline is total cost and how operations could be affected. Our job is to maximize financial and QOL gains within the confines of a cost structure that the other side of the table will eventually except.
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Originally Posted by hummingbear
(Post 3639575)
Well, sort of. What I take issue with is the idea that cost is set & the union only has the ability to shuffle pieces around within a predetermined amount. To illustrate, the company’s initial offer (Delta rates + current book) is way less than we are asking them to spend; & as they come around to various provisions without ALPA ceding ground in other areas, the total dollar amount is going up. So part of “our job” is to challenge & change the “confines of the cost structure the company is willing to accept”- not just to operate within it.
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Originally Posted by Hedley
(Post 3639588)
I agree and we need to push their limit, but there is going to be a limit. They will eventually agree to AA and DL plus a little, but they won’t sign off on AA/DL plus a lot.
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Originally Posted by hummingbear
(Post 3639575)
Well, sort of. What I take issue with is the idea that cost is set & the union only has the ability to shuffle pieces around within a predetermined amount. To illustrate, the company’s initial offer (Delta rates + current book) is way less than we are asking them to spend; & as they come around to various provisions without ALPA ceding ground in other areas, the total dollar amount is going up. So part of “our job” is to challenge & change the “confines of the cost structure the company is willing to accept”- not just to operate within it.
Just to be clear I am 100% behind the union, wear my lanyard, don't do "dog & pony shows", and generally try to work as little as possible (but then that wasn't new :) ). I also still think we get an offer by the end of Q2 which obviously now means the next 3 or 4 weeks. However, I just want to put a fine point on your comment as regards the company's initial offer. I would not characterize it as "current book". From the first comprehensive update here is a list of items which were already agreed upon in the first month and which mostly are gains albeit small gains, but gains none the less. I would also note that subsequent communications indicated several sections have now been closed. Presumably this means the company agreed to some of the "open" items from the 4/3 list. Agreed:
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