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Race Bannon 05-22-2023 06:38 AM


Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 3639947)
I totally agree, just making the point the company wasn't starting at zero. They have offered some things, and actually I think one line is potentially huge.



If this is written in such a way that prevents the company from simply adding more reserves to make such lines then the implication is senior people could bid reserve knowing they would not be subject to SC and that would end up potentially reducing the number of people subjected to SC. I, for one, being local, would most definitely bid "voluntary reserve" if I was guaranteed no SCs, and I don't think that line is the only one that has potential to be big, but of course the devil is in the details of which we have few at the moment.

If none of the senior pilots that are local like you bid reserve, because there is no SC threat, how do you think that might impact the number of SC that those who are on reserve(junior) will get assigned?

Since we are speculating(and without all the deets) I think the assigned SC for those remaining on reserve will go up. If you reduce the number subjected to SC, those that are subjected to SC will be more miserable due to more SC assignments. Seems pretty common sensical to me. When you tip the scales to better the life of the more senior, the more junior have to pick up the slack.

I know, we are a seniority based system so eating the juniors is tasty and nutritious.

BlueScholar 05-22-2023 06:54 AM


Originally Posted by Race Bannon (Post 3639962)
If none of the senior pilots that are local like you bid reserve, because there is no SC threat, how do you think that might impact the number of SC that those who are on reserve(junior) will get assigned?

Since we are speculating(and without all the deets) I think the assigned SC for those remaining on reserve will go up. If you reduce the number subjected to SC, those that are subjected to SC will be more miserable due to more SC assignments. Seems pretty common sensical to me. When you tip the scales to better the life of the more senior, the more junior have to pick up the slack.

I know, we are a seniority based system so eating the juniors is tasty and nutritious.

As it stands right now SC conversions are already incredibly high. As it stands right now reserve isn't very commutable for many people, but especially the new hires who are forced into reserve can't afford to live in expensive domiciles or can't uproot their lives to move across the country try to live in base for a year or two. So IF things fall apart like you describe how much worse would it really be? I see a lot of upside, and the downside is a very slim chance that it's slightly worse than the status quo. It's worth noting that UAL is the ONLY legacy airline where reserve goes junior because of the horrible work rules, so if we get industry standard work rules why do you think UAL pilots would buck the trend and reserve would stay junior?

Sunvox 05-22-2023 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by Race Bannon (Post 3639962)
If none of the senior pilots that are local like you bid reserve, because there is no SC threat, how do you think that might impact the number of SC that those who are on reserve(junior) will get assigned?

Since we are speculating(and without all the deets) I think the assigned SC for those remaining on reserve will go up. If you reduce the number subjected to SC, those that are subjected to SC will be more miserable due to more SC assignments. Seems pretty common sensical to me. When you tip the scales to better the life of the more senior, the more junior have to pick up the slack.

I know, we are a seniority based system so eating the juniors is tasty and nutritious.


Your analysis certainly could be correct. As I said, the devil is in the details.

I would add the note that today's update is interesting when you compare the list of open items from 4/3 versus the list of open items as of now. Seems the company is coming to it's senses. Hopefully that continues and continues quickly.
4/3 - update

Section 5 and 20 - Hours of Service and Scheduling of Flying
Open Items:
  • Increase in number of reserve days off
  • Increase in the daily value of reserve guarantee
  • Pilot option to add an additional reserve day in high LPA months
  • Short Call caps
  • Elimination of FDOs for Basic categories
  • Elimination of involuntary FSB
  • Improved voluntary reserve options
  • Improved Long Call and Short Call callout times
  • Increased pay for voluntary FSB
  • Remove crew desk discretion from reserve assignment order
  • Incentives to avoid involuntarily rolling of reserve days off
  • Improved limits on AV replacement flying
  • Additional hotel and Positive Space travel for AV replacement flying and reassignments that arrive after original release time
  • Reassignment Add Pay rig
  • Overtime Add Pay rig


4/22 - update

Section 5--Hours of Service
  • Open Items:

1. Minimum pay for a day of reserve
2. FDO (Flexible Day Off) changes for Basic Reserve categories
3. Elimination of involuntary Field Standby (FSB)
4. Elimination of the 50% and 75% options for Premium Pay (PPU)


Section 20--Allocation, Assignment and Scheduling of Flying
  • Open Items:
1) Short Call caps
2. Positive Space travel for missed commute due to a reassignment
3. Overtime and reassignment pay

KnightNight 05-22-2023 08:42 AM

I think things will move along now once AA becomes a TA, SK wouldn’t want to be outgunned by aA and if we couldn’t be first hopefully we pattern bargain and come ahead at the end. I’m optimistic and hopeful.

dailyops 05-22-2023 12:11 PM


Originally Posted by hummingbear (Post 3639866)
Huge is generous. A regressive legislative change to 117 is highly unlikely in my opinion. I’ll take the contractual language, but I’m not counting it as management moving across the aisle.

/s/ at the end means sarcasm....

Trying to count 10am as an approvement just because it says it in the contract instead of just 117 is insanity, especially when the standard now is 1400+ day 1 at every other major airline.

hummingbear 05-22-2023 02:05 PM


Originally Posted by dailyops (Post 3640099)
/s/ at the end means sarcasm....

Ah, a useful lesson in internet linguistics- thank you.

Ice Bear 05-22-2023 09:47 PM


Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 3640035)
Your analysis certainly could be correct. As I said, the devil is in the details.

I would add the note that today's update is interesting when you compare the list of open items from 4/3 versus the list of open items as of now. Seems the company is coming to it's senses. Hopefully that continues and continues quickly.
4/3 - update
[/list]
4/22 - update

It's less bullet points, yes, but the biggest problems (FSB, short call caps, FDO's) are all still open items.

AbjectFutility 05-22-2023 11:33 PM


Originally Posted by Ice Bear (Post 3640276)
It's less bullet points, yes, but the biggest problems (FSB, short call caps, FDO's) are all still open items.

I don't think you'll find that the majority believes those are the biggest problems.

Justabusdriver1 05-23-2023 03:27 AM

While most airlines have gotten rid of BS items that can rank qol I don’t see United getting rid of theirs. More likely they will be economically disincentivized from using them and the union rather than trying to get rid of them all together will settle for making the company pay more when using those items.

LJ Driver 05-23-2023 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by Justabusdriver1 (Post 3640313)
While most airlines have gotten rid of BS items that can rank qol I don’t see United getting rid of theirs. More likely they will be economically disincentivized from using them and the union rather than trying to get rid of them all together will settle for making the company pay more when using those items.

If done properly this is actually best case for us. Why not offer add pay for these items most of us hate? Some people will be more than happy to sit at an airport for 4 hours or slide their day off if they are getting paid something decent for it. It appears that FDOs are already gone for Global anyway, I’m guessing basic reserve could be next.


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