to put it bluntly delta has great qol in their contract and united plainly is far behind. Idc about cost but to see an entire company of pilot that have to live with work rules from the 90s is straight trash. I’d love to see you guy get qol items that emphasize pilot happiness. For those that like working let ‘em work and reward them for doing so. for those that want to show up and minimum let ‘em and pay them as such. Don’t punish people and make their lives harder just because the company demands the most out of their pilots.

I’d like to see that too, but being that I’m in the tail end of my career and having gone through numerous contract cycles, I understand how the game is played. The measure will be total cost. It is up to the negotiating committee to determine how to spread that cost out to reach an acceptable agreement. When we get a TA, some will be pleased and some won’t. There will be significant gains, but it’s not like anyone who has been down this road before honestly expects every single section to be “industry leading”.

Pretty sure I saw you at the airport last week on your day off, picking up straight pay trips, without your lanyard on. Make that few grand extra before you hit 65. I used to hope retro would include retirees, but it’s guys like you drooling over a few extra bucks that’s keeping this pilot group from moving forward.

when were you hired and at which legacy carrier?

maybe I read it wrong but I’m pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

Ding! Good read. Just reinforcing the LACK of leverage we actually have. If PP is offered, it’s going to be picked up. SK can wait a LONG time….

From an AA buddy:



On May 18, 2023, APA and American Airlines successfully negotiated agreements in principle on several remaining economic items, including pay rates. These agreements complement previously agreed-to items, including enhanced work rules and scheduling improvements that focus on quality of life and operational integrity. We will publish a high-level summary and provide more details in the coming days.

However, we understand that the desire for details is shared by all as we move forward with this process. To provide some of those details, we offer the following selected highlights addressed in this agreement. The below bullet points do not fully detail the changes to the agreement, are not all inclusive, and are for informational purposes only.

Summarized Highlights

Note: All “May 2” dates are based on an Aug. 1, 2023, ratification that will change if the agreement is not ratified Aug. 1.

• Duration – 4 years; Amendable date: Aug. 1, 2027
• Back Pay – (based on eligible earnings)
  • 2020: 4%
  • 2021: 4%
  • 2022: 14%
  • 2023: ~21% (3 months preceding DOS (thus effective May 2, 2023)
• Pay rates that meet or exceed Delta pay rates:
  • (DOS ~21% increase)
  • May 2, 2024: 5%
  • May 2, 2025: 4%
  • May 2, 2026: 4%
  • May 2, 2027: 3% Amendable year raise
• Increase of 401(k) contributions increase to:
  • 17% on May 2, 2024
  • 18% on May 2, 2026
• Realign pay step date (pay longevity) to date of hire for all pilots who have not reached 12th year pay.
• Establish a Market Based Cash Balance Plan.
• Sick sell-back – or – Retiree Health Reimbursement Arrangement (RHRA) option for pilots at retirement at 66% of the value of accrued sick bank (up to $200,000).
• Vacation year 2024/2025 and beyond: 4:35pay per day.
• Vacation year 2025/2026 and beyond: 4:00credit per day.
• Increase of vacation accrual to 35 days at 19 years of service.
• Long-haul narrowbody (NB) override: CA $8.00/FO $6.00 on all NB flying to Europe, South America (south of the equator), and Hawaii.
• International Override: CA $6.50/FO $4.50 (includes Canada).
• Improved profit sharing to the Delta formula (10% up to $2.5B pre-tax profit, 20% for anything above).
• Increase training pay to 5:00 per day.
• Increase (long course) training pay for Initial, Upgrade, Transition to 3:05 per day.
• Holiday pay for nine (9) holidays of an additional 5:15 for each designated holiday duty touches (includes simulator training, DHD’s to/from training, OE, and CKP).
• Deadhead (DHD) pays greater of scheduled or actual if pilot on aircraft.
• Jumpseat: Captain may coordinate to account for expected taxi fuel burn to offset jumpseat occupant.
• Pairing Construction Limits:
  • 1- and 2-day pairings: minimum of 20%
  • 4-day pairings: average maximum of 38% in a rolling 12-month period, max 43% in any month
  • 5-day pairings: average max of 8% in a rolling 12-month period, max of 10% in any month
• Elimination of ACARS use for scheduling purposes.
• Newly developed pilot-centric Electronic Communication System (ECS).
• No DHD prior to redeye flight segment on allocated sequences.
• 2:00 hours pay, no credit for sequences that release between 0000-0159.
• Development of graduated premium scale:
  • 50%, 75%, 100%
• Movement of pilot DFP only with pilot consent (no moveable DFP).
• Adjustments to reserve assignment system utilizing buckets and seniority.
• Company may not search or schedule reserve pilot to fly in the lineholder month.
• Reserves reassigned will be paid in accordance with the reassignment pay provisions.
• If a reserve pilot is scheduled into a DFP (no later than noon), the pilot will receive 5:15pay/no credit (above guarantee) and the DFP must be restored within the current month; if the DFP cannot be restored (e.g., remainder of month consists of only DFPs), or the pilot elects to not have the DFP restored, the pilot will receive an additional 5:15 pay/no credit (above guarantee).
• DFP trading via TTS-like system with transparency and conditions.
• Long Call increased to 14 hours outside of DOTC.
• Sit rig to pay for all sit time, including due to delays, reassignments, and reserve assignments, for all block-in to block-out time in excess of 2:30
• ALV (Average Line Value) window reduced to 74-82 hours, with conditional flex up.
• Reassignments will pay 50% premium for segments in the current/first duty period of a reassignment and 100% premium of all segments in subsequent duty period until the pilot is returned to original sequence or domicile.
• Pilot shared sequences implemented at DOS.
• Sequence Protection, Recovery Obligation, and Replacement Flying improvements that increase pilot optionality.
• Adjustments and protections surrounding NB Split Duty Pairings.
  • Min pay rig of 7:45
  • Max 2 flight segments (1 outbound, 1 inbound)
  • Max total scheduled block time: 4:15
• Check Pilots
  • 6.0-hour min day including schoolhouse work.
  • 20% override for all X-Type schoolhouse work.
  • 15-day standard month (Company can schedule up to 17): 16th day and greater at overtime (additional 2.5 hours/day above 15 days).
  • X & L Type CKP paid 12th year pay for what can hold in 4-part bid status.
  • Create Line Check Pilot (LCP) position.
    • LCP bid with PBS
    • 25% override pay for all Flight Standards work performed.
  • Create Instructor Pilot (IP) position.
    • IP paid highest bid status can hold capped at 12th year WB FO.
    • 15% override pay for IP work performed.
• Minimum of 4 vacancy bid awards annually.
• Long Term Disability (LTD):
  • New LTD
    • Monthly Benefit: 50% of Pre-Disability Earnings, no cap, fully pensionable.
    • Removal of all offsets.
    • Reduce elimination period from 90 days to 60 days.
    • Imputed Income Option: annual election would allow LTD benefits to be “tax-free.”
  • Improvements to Existing LTD Plans
    • Increase monthly benefit by 30%.
    • Remove ALL remaining offsets.
    • Pilot on LTD and employed by AA as a Sim-P may continue to receive current LTD benefit.
  • Life insurance increase to $500,000.
  • FAA first Class Medical reimbursement of up to $278 or $457 with EKG.

4.35 is pay that goes into your paycheck. 4.00 credit is the thing that counts towards your ALV or monthly max and min guarantee for reserves. It’s 3.40 today.

188,000 block hours flown by the 777 and 787 and a whopping 9 field standbys assigned for April. I honestly wouldn’t notice if they kept field stand by or got rid of it.

Keep drinking that rhapsody blue kool-aid “half wing”.

Does anyone have the actual pay rates for AA?

When I read “Pay rates that meet or exceed Delta pay rates” I’d like to know where they’re exceeding our rates?