Much ado about nothing in this thread.

Will pass by a generous margin and the usual gripers on here will find something else to cry about.

Serious value? Explain what the trade was. And then explain why Kirby wanted it so bad. He saved the ask for this until near the end of negotiations for a reason. I'm certain the company would charge us exponentially more to get rid of this provision than what they paid for it. This provision pays them dividends way beyond this TA. They were thinking long game. We're looking not much longer beyond Sept 29, 2023. They win because their horizon is usually much further out. It will pass but we're getting played. Big time.

you ain’t lying! On Another forum one of the female pilots is trying to tie 21-DD (medical privacy/vaccinations) to the possibility of “Arab countries” mandating that women having to drive in separate vans, wear burkas, etc… can’t make this $hit up.

FWIW the theoretical new hire forced into a very well paying CA spot that easily maxes a 401k can easily undo it with a short cycle event per the TA.

…which would seem far easier than the multi decade effort some of our WB FOs make to dodge the left seat

(that’s a joke but only sort of)

And if I understand correctly, no offset, UNLIKE Delta/American. So guys with a pension or getting other unemployment benefits continue receiving that. Far better then most.

You're not the only one expressing this. This is a discussion. I believe it's very important to ferrit out the details before you vote so you know what you are signing up for. We need to learn from our past where we failed in that area, voted in a contract, yet a few years later you couldn't find anyone to own up to voting yes. That's because people didn't read or understand details that became hated and cost us lots. Even on a forum I'm finding these threads helpful.

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Just to make sure y'all are comparing apples/apples...

At DL, at zero cost to the pilot, upon exhausting all sick hours (up to 270), disability immediately pays 50% of your "Final Average Earnings" (aka FAE - the highest 12 consecutive of prior 36 months, with no cap, and no carveouts). PLUS, we get 401k input at 32/34/36% of that amount. IOW, your 401k inputs continue as if you were fully active at 16/17/18%. Both these payments continue until the "FAA regulatory mandated retirement age". The only 'offset' is if you have outside income that exceeds your 100% FAE. Which at the top end would mean you would have an outside job well into 6-figures before that's a factor... Not very likely. Of note, New Hires now have a floor of 1000 hours of pay in the FAE calculation at first year pay - no 'vesting' required. A huge improvement.

In addition, 99+% of DL pilots voluntarily participate in "Delta Pilot Mutual Aid" (DPMA), which is an after-tax mutual aid benefit at a cost of approximately 0.7%, or about $2k on $300k of pay. This benefit is tax-free, and will pay the pre-tax-equivalent of the other 50% of your FAE for up to 365 days per event, up to 730 total days in your career. (no limit on events, just total days). DPMA also starts the day after your sick leave is exhausted. So, unless you lose your medical for a duration which exceeds (up to) 4+12 months, you effectively continue to get your full 100% FAE, plus full 401k input.

Here is an example. Active WB Captains are routinely pushing $500,000 annually, plus profit sharing (this year will be ~10%, or $50k), plus $80,000 in their 401k (plus another $8,000 401k from profit sharing). If that pilot loses their medical today, that pilot will get $275,000 annually/$~23,000 monthly (taxed) until turning age 65, PLUS $88,000 annually in their 401k until turning 65, PLUS DMPA (untaxed) will pay that pilot a pre-tax-equivalent of $275,000 over the next year/365 days. All that for about $3850 this year in DPMA dues. If that same pilot happened to have a banner year, and made $800,000 2 years ago (which happened to more than a few at DL), well, you can do the (uncapped) math. It's a ****-ton of money until turning 65 (or maybe 67?).

You can decide if that is better or worse than your TA.

Thanks Fangs, these guys just spilled their koolaid.

Nah, I’m still better with UAL plan.

Well, to compare apples to oranges....one thing that is unequivocal is that you are way better off with the Delta profit sharing plan. IT IS NOW PENSIONABLE!!! Not only that, if it matches the Delta formula on what constitutes "profit" id UAL matches Delta's profit you will see an average of about 10% more in your yearly pay(with an additional 16-18% on top of that due to personability). This could easily mean an extra 50k per year for the average pilot over what the current contract does.

That is a major Pay win for every pilot at UAL....no matter how you slice it or dice it. These are facts as opposed to your opinion on you, you, you and your LTD.