CAL questions
08-12-2010, 06:52 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,708
Originally Posted by pilotgolfer
To each his own, I guess. But if he was furloughed last October, I could count about 800 pilots, give or take, who were furloughed already that might take issue with people picking up open time. It was very easy at United to get on the computer and see who was flying open time. And using..."I'm about to get furloughed anyways" generally wasn't a valid excuse.
A Jr guys picking up open trips on reserve so he can pay his rent for a month or two after furlough....Give me a break.
I've got an idea as a line holder why don't you donate anything you make over 70 hours to a pool and we'll split it up and send it to the furloughed guys. By your logic shouldn't anybody flying over 70 hours have an issue?
08-12-2010, 07:44 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: Furlough United Airlines Pilot
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by pilotgolfer
Picked up open time right up until you were furloughed?? or did I misunderstand what you were saying?
I lived in Indy and commuted to Chicago so if i had the chance to pick up something that I knew I was gonna get anyway I would much rather pick it up and buy myself sometime or an extra night at home.
Not sure why this is a big deal? Plus if you don't fly you do not get per diem which might not seem like a lot but to guy that is going to get furlough every little bit helped.
08-12-2010, 07:54 PM
#33
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: Furlough United Airlines Pilot
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy
Been awhile since I have been on reserve, but I'll take a stab.....
If I understand your question Jimenez....When you are on reserve at CAL ("A" or "B" aka short/long calls), there is something called an "Aggressive P/U Window". It's basically a 2 hr window the day before your reserve period (the short vs long call aggressive windows are separate times). It allows reserve pilots 'in a sense' p/u trips in open time that are going to be assigned to reserve pilots anyway. Basically gives a reserve pilot something to 'plan' around for the next day as opposed to being at the 'beckon call' waiting for scheduling to call on his reserve day. For the next day, if there's 4 trips w/ 4 reserves in the pool it allows a reserve (ie -one of the 4 in the pool) to pick his/her "posion" for the next day as opposed to having scheduling do it for them.
As far as picking up 'true' OT for a reserve on his/her day's off, not exactly sure. I think the reserve pilot can do so if he's legal in staying away from 30/7 or 32/7 as well as 7 day conflicts ect.....as long as he/she does NOT go below 8 days off a month, I do believe he/she is able to do so & that pay goes above his/hers guarantee. The minimum scheduled days off per month is still 12. AGAIN, the second part of the explanation is what I remember, been awhile since being on reserve. Hopefully any other CAL reserves who are a bit more 'up' on this can help out???
At CAL, there are presently 2 schools of thought about p/u "true" OT on Days off as CAL has 147 'on the street'.....personally, I don't do it.....but have seen others who see it fit to do so.....To each there own and that's an argument that has been beaten to death, so I wont go there
Hope that helps....
BTW....CAL's LEC 171 (IAH) just had an info Town Hall call in this afternoon. CA Bill Benson from UAL's LAX base was on the call. Very informative as to how UAL does business in things like training ect....good to hear the other CAMP's going-ons insight.
If I understand your question Jimenez....When you are on reserve at CAL ("A" or "B" aka short/long calls), there is something called an "Aggressive P/U Window". It's basically a 2 hr window the day before your reserve period (the short vs long call aggressive windows are separate times). It allows reserve pilots 'in a sense' p/u trips in open time that are going to be assigned to reserve pilots anyway. Basically gives a reserve pilot something to 'plan' around for the next day as opposed to being at the 'beckon call' waiting for scheduling to call on his reserve day. For the next day, if there's 4 trips w/ 4 reserves in the pool it allows a reserve (ie -one of the 4 in the pool) to pick his/her "posion" for the next day as opposed to having scheduling do it for them.
As far as picking up 'true' OT for a reserve on his/her day's off, not exactly sure. I think the reserve pilot can do so if he's legal in staying away from 30/7 or 32/7 as well as 7 day conflicts ect.....as long as he/she does NOT go below 8 days off a month, I do believe he/she is able to do so & that pay goes above his/hers guarantee. The minimum scheduled days off per month is still 12. AGAIN, the second part of the explanation is what I remember, been awhile since being on reserve. Hopefully any other CAL reserves who are a bit more 'up' on this can help out???
At CAL, there are presently 2 schools of thought about p/u "true" OT on Days off as CAL has 147 'on the street'.....personally, I don't do it.....but have seen others who see it fit to do so.....To each there own and that's an argument that has been beaten to death, so I wont go there
Hope that helps....
BTW....CAL's LEC 171 (IAH) just had an info Town Hall call in this afternoon. CA Bill Benson from UAL's LAX base was on the call. Very informative as to how UAL does business in things like training ect....good to hear the other CAMP's going-ons insight.
Thanks SCG.
I am pretty sure that at United you could not pick up trips on your days off. Not sure. I never asked.
Open time at United is Open time there is no difference. Line holders have a window that they can trade up until 28 hours (48hrs for International) before departure to trade then it opens up for the reserves to Agressive Pick-UP.
AT United if you wanted to fly on your days off it was called Junior manning and scheduling would initiate the call. Rarely offerd to reserves. Junior manning is not encourage by the Union when we have guys on the streets but unfortunately guys still take it.
Again Thanks for all the info.
08-12-2010, 08:35 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: UAL FO
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by Airhoss
WRONG WRONG WRONG....
You do NOT get paid for a short call. They can convert you up to 7 times a month but after 4 times they have to pick someone else if they are available. Picking up or being assigned short call does not pay ANYTHING. Your guarantee is 70 hours a month and the only way to get more time than that is to pick up open time. Period.
I know I've been living it for the last three years.
You do NOT get paid for a short call. They can convert you up to 7 times a month but after 4 times they have to pick someone else if they are available. Picking up or being assigned short call does not pay ANYTHING. Your guarantee is 70 hours a month and the only way to get more time than that is to pick up open time. Period.
I know I've been living it for the last three years.
ah ok. memory must be going bad, sorry .. it s been almost 2 years since furlough, take it easy on me..
someone told me that on reserve at CAL you have 12 days off but some of those days can be moved around by the company with very short notice, is that true??
08-12-2010, 08:41 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 786
Originally Posted by 757Driver
Kind of a chicken before the egg thing.
We don't pick-up open time PERIOD when there are furloughed Pilots. And by using the word WE, I'm referring to the Pilots who are informed Union members who care about the guys on the street. Unfortunately there are also quite a few who don't give a rats ass about anyone but themselves and no its not just our scabs.
We don't pick-up open time PERIOD when there are furloughed Pilots. And by using the word WE, I'm referring to the Pilots who are informed Union members who care about the guys on the street. Unfortunately there are also quite a few who don't give a rats ass about anyone but themselves and no its not just our scabs.
BUT THE BUCK STOPS THERE.
This BS, failed, quasi-ALPA policy of "we dont pick up trips" came on the heals of the same union people selling pilots on contract '02, by claiming that it "wasn't a pay cut" because with the removal of the pay bank system, "you could fly as much as you wanted to to make up the difference". I won't even mention how the LPPs affected W-2s long after the ink dried on '02.
Maybe you'd like to further define what an "informed union member" is? If you're one of ALPAs leaders, let's just admit it's been difficult to define a magenta line the past few years, let alone stay on it. We need to put this OT pick-up issue behind us and move forward to insure that we don't weave any similar divisions into the fabric of what will soon become known as JCBA '10.
The reality of the business cycle is in no way the fault of the pilots not on furlough.
08-13-2010, 05:27 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy
As far as picking up 'true' OT for a reserve on his/her day's off, not exactly sure. I think the reserve pilot can do so if he's legal in staying away from 30/7 or 32/7 as well as 7 day conflicts ect.....as long as he/she does NOT go below 8 days off a month, I do believe he/she is able to do so & that pay goes above his/hers guarantee. The minimum scheduled days off per month is still 12. AGAIN, the second part of the explanation is what I remember, been awhile since being on reserve. Hopefully any other CAL reserves who are a bit more 'up' on this can help out???
I would never do so with people on furlough anyway.
In correction to the first part of your post, the aggressive pick up window has strict rules to follow. If there are four people on reserve and four trips, a pilot can only aggressive pick up a trip that matches the number of days of availability. In other words, if he sees a nice Seattle layover in there for a two-day trip and a four-day with a crappy Mexico City overnight and he is good for four days, said reserve CANNOT aggressive pickup the two-day.
Scheduling may, at their discretion, assign that two-day to a four-day reserve during the reserve assignment window, however. The only exception to the statement above is when a reserve is available for a 5 or 6 day stretch. That reserve CAN aggressive pick up a 4 day trip. Once the days available hits 4, a reserve can only pick up days for days.
In addition, call blocks versus available trips can become an issue. If you are on the 0300 call block, you may not be able to pick up that trip with a 1500 show because #1 unless scheduling assigns you that trip they are not going to release you (if you pick it up) to show and #2 the duty-day limit would apply. It also might screw up their lack of planning by removing you from a call block they already have covered.
08-13-2010, 05:32 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
Originally Posted by WS01
someone told me that on reserve at CAL you have 12 days off but some of those days can be moved around by the company with very short notice, is that true??
There is a proration table listing the days off you get and how many immovable based on your days of actual availability. As an example, have training? Training counts as unavailable days. So if you have TRVL, SIM 1, SIM 2, then you are unavailable 3 days of a month and you are prorated down to only 10 days off in a month with I believe 7 of those being immovable. Vacation works the same way.
08-13-2010, 05:36 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by CA Jimenez
At United when you pick trips in open flying you do not get paid over guarantee if you are on reserve. The pick up window for reserves would open 28 hours prior to departure to allow line holders to trade before that.
I lived in Indy and commuted to Chicago so if i had the chance to pick up something that I knew I was gonna get anyway I would much rather pick it up and buy myself sometime or an extra night at home.
Not sure why this is a big deal? Plus if you don't fly you do not get per diem which might not seem like a lot but to guy that is going to get furlough every little bit helped.
I lived in Indy and commuted to Chicago so if i had the chance to pick up something that I knew I was gonna get anyway I would much rather pick it up and buy myself sometime or an extra night at home.
Not sure why this is a big deal? Plus if you don't fly you do not get per diem which might not seem like a lot but to guy that is going to get furlough every little bit helped.
My mistake...I missed the part about you being on reserve. Aggressive pickup is a different story. Commuting to reserve does suck and I can see why you would pick up trips in that manner. I was thinking more along the lines of a lineholder flying extra on his off days.
08-13-2010, 07:12 AM
#39
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
As someone closer to the reserve rules here at CAL, I can tell you that the above statement is incorrect. A reserve CANNOT pick up open time, advertisements or anything on his/her day off.
AS I stated....."It's been a AWHILE (aka long time) since I was on reserve".....thus I'm glad you are more versed on the rules thus I was hoping to solicit your advice....thanx for the clarification.
Hopefully the reserve A$$ beating of our "AWESOME" CBA (dripping with sarcasm for you/or anyone's edification) is something of the past if/when this JCBA is finalized. Good to hear there are a few 'others' who don't touch OT.
BTW.....I do miss "Gordo" as well
08-13-2010, 08:02 AM
#40
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: Furlough United Airlines Pilot
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
As someone closer to the reserve rules here at CAL, I can tell you that the above statement is incorrect. A reserve CANNOT pick up open time, advertisements or anything on his/her day off.
I would never do so with people on furlough anyway.
In correction to the first part of your post, the aggressive pick up window has strict rules to follow. If there are four people on reserve and four trips, a pilot can only aggressive pick up a trip that matches the number of days of availability. In other words, if he sees a nice Seattle layover in there for a two-day trip and a four-day with a crappy Mexico City overnight and he is good for four days, said reserve CANNOT aggressive pickup the two-day.
Scheduling may, at their discretion, assign that two-day to a four-day reserve during the reserve assignment window, however. The only exception to the statement above is when a reserve is available for a 5 or 6 day stretch. That reserve CAN aggressive pick up a 4 day trip. Once the days available hits 4, a reserve can only pick up days for days.
In addition, call blocks versus available trips can become an issue. If you are on the 0300 call block, you may not be able to pick up that trip with a 1500 show because #1 unless scheduling assigns you that trip they are not going to release you (if you pick it up) to show and #2 the duty-day limit would apply. It also might screw up their lack of planning by removing you from a call block they already have covered.
I would never do so with people on furlough anyway.
In correction to the first part of your post, the aggressive pick up window has strict rules to follow. If there are four people on reserve and four trips, a pilot can only aggressive pick up a trip that matches the number of days of availability. In other words, if he sees a nice Seattle layover in there for a two-day trip and a four-day with a crappy Mexico City overnight and he is good for four days, said reserve CANNOT aggressive pickup the two-day.
Scheduling may, at their discretion, assign that two-day to a four-day reserve during the reserve assignment window, however. The only exception to the statement above is when a reserve is available for a 5 or 6 day stretch. That reserve CAN aggressive pick up a 4 day trip. Once the days available hits 4, a reserve can only pick up days for days.
In addition, call blocks versus available trips can become an issue. If you are on the 0300 call block, you may not be able to pick up that trip with a 1500 show because #1 unless scheduling assigns you that trip they are not going to release you (if you pick it up) to show and #2 the duty-day limit would apply. It also might screw up their lack of planning by removing you from a call block they already have covered.
Thanks for the info. It looks like United aggresive pick up is a little better.
You can do aggresive pick silo-1. Meaning that if you are a 5 day guy you can pick up either a 5 day trip or a 4 day trip. If you wanted something out of silo then you needed scheduling blessing.
Also on your last day on Reserve you could pick up a trip 28 hours out or if the trip leaves after 03:00pm domicile time you can pick it up at 11:00am the day before. So if you see a nice trip that left at 1800 tomorrow you could pick it up at 11:00am today and be release from having to answer your phone.
Also since we are all on Long Call you knew that if you did not get assigned anything by 1800 domicile time on your last day off> The company could not assigned you anything that left before noon your first day on reserve. There was a 4 hour window that you had to be available on your last days off reserve so that they could notify you if you were getting a 0600am departure the next day.
I hope this is not too confusing.
Hopefully we get the best of both worlds when this is all done.
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