Airline Pilot Central Forums - What to do about Contract Violation

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevets (Post 899334)

There seems to be a lot of animosity against the Skywest pilots but not for the Shuttle America pilots. My guess is its because Skywest pilots have repeatedly voted down ALPA representation and independent union representation. I wouldn't be surprised if ALPA has reached out to the Shuttle America pilots through the IBT to coordinate whatever strategy they come up with to fight this. If Skywest pilots were ALPA, or just unionized, they too would be able to participate in discussions happening right now between the SPCS, CAL ALPA, UAL ALPA, XJT ALPA, ASA ALPA, Mesa ALPA, TSA ALPA, Colgan ALPA, Commutair ALPA (ALL UAX/CALEX ALPA carriers) to coordinate whatever the SPSC and CAL ALPA come up with as a total game strategy and specific tactics to be used to fight this on ALL fronts. Whatever this strategy is, this information and direction will be dessimanted quickly to all the ALPA carriers involved through the SPSC to exert as legal much pressure possible to UAL management and we wouldn't have this infighting between fellow professional pilots. At some point, we all should band together for the betterment of the entire industry and stop being passive about it just because its convenient.

Just a thought.

I don't think so, actually. I'm guessing if Shuttle America were opening a 70 seat RJ base in IAH the reaction would be the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 899354)

It's my flying because it pays my paycheck, and provides for me. You really expect me to give it all up just because you say so? My company has grown almost every year the past 20+ years. My company has been profitable every quarter. In essence, it was a better business plan than actually having a code and selling the seats....That has largely been a money losing proposition since deregulation. I decided to stay with the growing money making company rather than the shrinking money losing company...To each their own....

You really are clueless.

1. Doesn't take much to make a 50 seater weight limited for a jumpseater. Safety first.

2. The fact that you are actually promoting whipsaw and other regionals bidding lower to get flying shows you have no idea what harm that does to YOUR pay and workrules. That puts pressure on your pay and workrules when the cost of the regional feed goes down....You are only slitting your own throat when someone cheaper comes in....

BWAHAHAHA! You call ME clueless and brag about how your airline has made money during difficult times. Ummm.. yeah, Joe, and why is that? Because you were guaranteed a profit, regardless of how much it hurt mainline! You love history. Take a look at what happened to ACA when they decided they were too cool for school.

You go ahead with that threat there tough guy. You must have missed it the first 10 times I said it. I'm speak slowly so you can follow.

I

Don't

Care.

But I bet United does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 899354)

It's my flying because it pays my paycheck, and provides for me. You really expect me to give it all up just because you say so?.

Nope, I expect you to give it up because you have no control over it. You only operate those jets at the whim of our Scope clause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 899349)

Psst...This is UNITED EXPRESS flying...CAL is going away.

I will do what is necessary to defend my job also...Hell of a way to run a "union", but that is what this confict of interest has come down to....Maybe you guys shouldn't have stuck your heads in the sand on this issue the past 20 years...

The first Skywest pilot that gets denied the jumpseat will result in me joining in....Be very careful with what you start...

Psst, CAL is still here as is our contract. We did stick our heels in the sand and ended up with 50 or less scope, are you having trouble understanding that?

If you're so hell bent on defending flying that violates anothers contract perhaps you should be one of the first ones to sign up for the IAH base.

I'll see you there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Bear (Post 899395)

How is it any better if your flying is outsourced by union vs. non-union pilots, unless you think the union (or unionism, since those group are not even represented by the same union) is more important than the pilots and the jobs? Seems like that relationship is a bit upside down.

Your idea that CAL ALPA is reaching out to Republic's IBT to strategize sounds nice in the ideal union brotherhood fairy-land, but CAL and UAL (both ALPA) can't even seem to see eye-to-eye to solve their own in-house problems, and nothing along those lines of what you postulate has been indicated by CAL's or Republic's unions.

The SkyWest SAPA president HAS stated that he has reached out to CAL ALPA to establish a line of communication, FWIW.

And your idea that an organization that is not recognized by the NMB to be the legal representative of a pilot group reaching out to CAL ALPA sounds nice in your ideal non-union brotherhood fairly land but until Skywest pilots get their heads out of the sand and want to participate in this discussion by finally unionizing like the vast majority of those in our profession. But where was SAPA when DD was fighting to get his job back? Where was SAPA's team of attorneys representing DD at court? See, I can play the strawman argument as well. The ONE disagreement on pay banding between UALPA and CALPA does not mean they are not united on scope.

The point is that the ALPA SPSC committee is fully spooled up on this. This committee is comprised of pilots from many different types of airlines. The whole purpose of the SPSC is to coordinate strategy and tactics between multiple pilot groups. Pilots of multiple airlines are being coordinated to fight this scope violation. Skywest pilots find themselves in the middle of a battlefield without any real say. Someone used the term collateral damage before. I think that is a very good analogy for this situation.

Do you want to be part of the solution or put your head back in the sand while everyone else is fighting this battle?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 899403)

I don't think so, actually. I'm guessing if Shuttle America were opening a 70 seat RJ base in IAH the reaction would be the same.

I don't think the issue is having an RJ base in IAH. But I haven't heard anything about Shuttle America like I have about Skywest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 899347)

You really expect those of us who have made a good career, in what has arguably been the worst stretch of history in the business, to just say "OK, take my job"...YGTBSM!!

:D:DYep the above reveals just about how completely worthless you are Joe. To be fair based on the above, I actually look forward to 'stealing' your job back to mainline. That is the most pathetic thing I've heard since the '83 scab that said he had no other choice. Good career!?! Unfortunately the censors probably will only let me call you a loser JoeH*...

Strap on your David Clarks and hope your FO hasn't turned off the hot mic. Joe Merchant has an opinion...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevets (Post 899455)

I don't think the issue is having an RJ base in IAH. But I haven't heard anything about Shuttle America like I have about Skywest.

We will have to agree to disagree then. Skywest long ago announced they would be flying a CRJ 700 from IAH-ASE and there was some grumbling, but no threat of jumpseat denial. This only came when Skywest announced that they would be opening a 20 plane crew base in IAH.

I'm not a CAL guy, so I could be wrong here, but I don't remember this getting to the MEC level until the base was announced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by intrepidcv11 (Post 899466)

Yep the above reveals just about how completely worthless you are Joe. To be fair based on the above, I actually look forward to 'stealing' your job back to mainline. That is the most pathetic thing I've heard since the '83 scab that said he had no other choice. Good career!?! Unfortunately the censors probably will only let me call you a loser JoeH*...

Strap on your David Clarks and hope your FO hasn't turned off the hot mic. Joe Merchant has an opinion...

Intrepid, I think you may need more fiber in your diet...You seem to be getting really worked up...Especially with your fellow United pilots. Here are some of your comments to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by intrepidcv11

You know what fine! Everything you represent above is the truth. Better yet everything that comes from the mouth of CAL MEC is specifically designed to bone every single UAL pilot as hard as possible. Sorry but us scabs have to make up for two decades of inferior earnings. We finally got you lazy greedy UAL b@stards right where we want you...:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by intrepidcv11

Originally Posted by intrepidcv11 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif
You are right. In fact when I was in NRT yesterday, I saw 1 400 and 10 777's. We really need to fight hard to save the whale drivers from misfortune! Hopefully the CAL MEC will hurry up and bend over to their needs. I hear some of them might have to retire soon!?!

No I want to listen to whatever the UAL MEC says is my best interest! After all it will hurry up to make the world's best airline!

Well UAL guys are Widebody kings based on what I've heard. So if you all made more flying 76's then it must be right!

I've felt a great sense of kumbaya based on your post What a great future we have with UAL pilots like you as the primary drivers! It takes great talent to f*ck this up gentleman. Based on what has happened so far, both sides need to check their egos!

Seriously dude, your going to blow a gasket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 899524)

Actually, as an IAH based XJT pilot who commutes on CAL every week, there were lots of grumblings about that. From my understanding, the CAL MEC did look into that but they felt that it was technically not a violation of their contract.

My point is that Shuttle America is doing the same exact thing as Skywest yet I don't hear nearly as much animosity about that. What's the difference? I'm sure if Skywest was doing this 70 seat IAH flying with no base, you would still have this ruckus over Skywest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevets (Post 899607)

My point is that Shuttle America is doing the same exact thing as Skywest yet I don't hear nearly as much animosity about that. What's the difference?

Hypocrisy.