This forum is quickly dissolving into "my crank's bigger than yours " and similar mindless acrimony. It will become a worthless pi$$ing medium if we let it.

It doesn't matter that UAL had a gazillion widebodies and 10,000+ pilots at one time. It doesn't matter that CAL was a successful and growing international entity with quick upgrades, younger hot FAs, etc etc. Those topics are fairly subjective and will be dealt with in the JSLI by our MECs and our hired guns. Once we get an industry leading contract we can resume polishing our helmets and pontificating about the good old days over beers while on layovers.

None of us can do anything about this merger, it's done. The camel has already left a large fetid steamer in the tent.

In the interim I submit that we would all be better served if the level of discourse was elevated and we keep the dialog centered on what's important to all of us collectively and what gets us the contract we deserve ($$$). A contract which gets all of our brothers back on the property and keeps our flying in house. Let's pay attention to what is important to ALL of us. It sounds dorky and sophomoric, but we're now all UNITED pilots irrespective of what trajectory we thought we had at date of hire.

The "innernets" has provided us with a phenomenal device to disseminate information and to share views and ideas. But if we have to slog through bushels of crap to find the useful tidbits than this forum is worthless and will further divide us and diminish our strength.

Our enemy is management which gives our flying away, and keeps us in servitude. Our enemy is Delta, AMR, USAirways etc. The enemy is the Death Star Alliance.

We are at a crucial point in airline labor history. Information, awareness and solidarity will serve us well. Anything less will only serve our enemies.

 

Son, you pretty much just summed up EXACTLY what the majority on the UAL MEC are saying about why they shut down that fetid cesspool otherwise known as the UAL MEC forum.

Them are some wise words!

'Course, just me talkin'...others may (and likely will) disagree.

 

I agree with the last half of your post regarding moving forward but you were fast out if the gate ripping on the Pre United United while blowing yourself. You are right that UAL had a "Gazillion" wide bodies once Even though we parked a bunch we still have quite the imbalance in that department today. We once had 3 year captains 10 years ago and then that came to a grinding halt as you will soon experience as well so don't get too full of yourself. Now that the dick measuring is over let's keep in mind who the "enemy" is. Management and our competition.

 

What did I miss? I thought we were keeping our eye on the ball. Reading some of the posts about other mergers, this one seems to be doing quite well. Intraweb wise, that is...

 

Yeah, like the younger, hot F/As...

 

I'm pretty sure that oldmako is a 'legacy' UA pilot. That you would mistake his words for something you'd 'expect' to hear from a CAL pilot only speaks to the truth of his words. I agree with him!

 

Yes, that's what they "said." (cough)

On the other hand, IMHO, it looked like the heat was getting a little too hot in the kitchen for some of the cockroaches on the MEC and they panicked. Shuttering the official forum did absolutely nothing to help maintain our eye on the ball as the real dirty laundry is now being aired elsewhere.

I agree with oldmako: at the end of the day the enemy is not our fellow pilots.

 

I've said it before, often; for me and a lot of others, the UAL forum was entertainment mostly. And there were a TON of pilots that had no idea how to even access it. The Vocal Majority whom frequented it were mostly venting, pontificating, opining, chest-pounding and saber-rattling. There was, for sure, some good info there occasionally, but I don't think that outweighed the negative impact the aforementioned venting, etc had, and potentially had. Pure and simple, management used it to keep their finger on the pulse of UAL's pilots. They wouldn't hesitate to use it against us, or use it again.

The MEC has to treat a lot of info as if it's public if it's on the forum, and thereby keep it under wraps until it's fit for public consumption. Management loves it because silence fosters rumor-mongering, and management has always believed that a good juicy rumor, born of speculation and wild imagination, is a great way to divide any employee group.

I'm not an MEC member, sympathizer for any one of the categories of UAL pilots, as were so succinctly yet so incompletely and inaccurately described on another thread, or manager, instructor, or anything other than a 24 year UAL pilot who's seen more crap EVERYWHERE that the guy who cleans out the horse stalls. I'm probably in some group or another, but the one I thought I was in wasn't even listed.

While our MEC has made it's mistakes just like everyone has and they're not perfect, they are without a doubt doing the best they can for every old/young/narrow/wide/junior/senior/furloughed UAL pilot. There's a lot of truth to the old saying, "you can't please all the people all of the time", so there will always be some who believe their own or someone else's conspiracy theory, but then again, if they think it's so ℉℧℃ƙℹɳ easy, maybe they should run for an MEC position and fix everything.

Really, we're either part of the problem or part of the solution. The forum was part of the problem a lot more than it was part of the solution. I'll miss the entertainment but not very much.

TW

 

TW,

I would have to disagree with regards to shutting down a means of pilots communicating amongst themselves. I think it hurts in the long run. JMHO.

Now as to the legal ramifications of having an MEC sanctioned forum, I'll give you one there. I can definitely see that side of the coin.

Fact is, many lurked on the forum, which was far from all the pilots. Nonetheless, it was an avenue for communication. How one chose to value a post is not any different than this forum. Take it for what you will. Value the position or information with whatever grain of salt you choose to.

If the MEC is hoping that shutting down the forum will somehow increase meeting attendance, well that is a pipe dream. Granted, LCO slugs aren't doing 10 day off reserve/95 hour months anymore. But, folks are wrung out still. Seems the same folks always attend the meetings. They can run the agenda, like it or not.

Seems the cell phone or email is the only way to be vocal with your LEC. It is what it is. Attempts to put meetings in an internet format will never come to be. Too many legal hurdles.

The forum was never going to solve anything but did have some useful purpose many a time. What is fact is that now those that at least cared about what was going on, no matter how wrong in their opinion, aren't connected.

That leaves you with the majority of pilots that really have no idea what is going on, by their own doing (apathy), and those that just now get a sterilized MEC email update, voting for what?

MEC now operates in a controlled environment. Information is only that they approve and endorse. What does that sound like?

And, they have done nothing with regards to pilots getting together and spouting whatever they want. Just no MEC guidelines regarding the new forum. Which by the way is quite civil.

While the MEC has no legal issue with that forum since it is not sponsored, the fact is it is no different than 2172.com was regarding mgmt getting the info.

Stalemate.

Frats,
Lee

 

I don't think the intent of shutting down the forum was to increase meeting attendance, but to try to minimize the restlessness that turns into rumors and goes from there. There was enough stuff there that we'd all rather not share with management. Unfortunately, that was a place where you couldn't speak your mind without speaking it to management too.

True, the forum was different things to different people. I honestly believe that there were some credible sources there, but you had to have a feel for separating the crap from the non-crap. No small feat there.

I mentioned the Family Awareness committee in an earlier post somewhere. While not a very active committee at the moment, at least not much that's apparent to the majority, it will be an important part of the communication network among pilots, especially as negotiations drag on and get more contentious. As you and I and I hope everyone else that reads this knows, the FamAware committee is an integral part of the Strike Preparedness committee, and the more pilots that know that fact, the better. The SPC will rely on the network of FamAware, and it will be instrumental in communicating credible information with pilots, and not just current UA. but CO as well.

And in fact, FamAware IS a place where pilots can get together and spout, via the Family Gatherings side of it. Beer, pizza, *****ing: like a layover but no 12 hour rule! You might want to check it out on alpa.org.

Would mind PMing me some info on the new forum? I don't know about it yet.

C/B

TW