Since when does being fatigued have anything to do with being sick? If you're fatigued, call in fatigued. Doesn't touch your sick bank (UAL, anyway). Or is it that you want to be paid for the time that you're "scheduled" or "assigned" but don't want to fly it. If you're unable to fly it safely, then don't. Doesn't take sick leave to accomplish that.

Scott

FWIW, I absolutely agree that the schedules I had as a junior pilot absolutely sucked, and I called in fatigued when necessary. Horrible experience that no ALPA pilot should have to fly. No question.

 

I never said fatigued and sick were the same thing. I was countering the argument that its practical just to "adjust" your schedule with sick usage whenever the schedule becomes burdensome.

Not to drift, but two points on fatigue: I have filed many ASAPS because we are not able to 'predict' fatigue in the FAA or the company's eyes. I have stated that although I may be prepared to fly a midnight redeye after flying all morning from a previous unscheduled redeye, I am not sharp many hours later. The problem with aggressive reserve scheduling is that pairing construction and other areas where fatigue is considered do not assist a reserve who is shuffled from day trip to night or double dutied and rolled.

The second point is that our union has made specific statements and agreed on by flight ops that a sick call can be used instead of a fatigue call. The sick call guarantees that the pilot will be paid. It would also be prudent to file an ASAP when one calls in sick for fatigue reasons. You can argue that calling in sick and not fatigued does not bring the problem to light. But the ASAP is also seen by the FAA and monitored by the fatigue and pairing construction overseers.

My earlier post simply discussed the heavy workload and was not specifically fatigue related. I, of course, agree that there is no excuse for flying fatigued. The problem comes that we should not be forced into fatiguing schedules by abusive crew schedulers that use operational necessity as the way to run an airline, and have done so for a decade. It forces me to use sick bank or a fatigue call with CPO interrogation to cover flying that should never have been assigned in the first place. I refuse to lose pay because some random cubicle pilot can make the square peg go into the round hole.

 

Says who? Management?? We've been hearing how overstaffed we are for years, yet in May (down month) I couldn't trade a 3 day for a 3 day that left a day later- no coverage. I've put in to vacation trip every trip I have for YEARS. Guess how many I've gotten? Zero- no coverage. I couldn't hold a WEDNESDAY off at the beginning of June- no coverage.

As soon as I can trade and drop at will I'll listen to the argument that we are "overstaffed".

 

And that is the problem. If it doesn't cost them, they don't care. If you aren't willing to "lose the pay" then the company will continue to schedule like they do. Why wouldn't they? Unless it costs them trips, they smile and pretend to be concerned, knowing full well that you don't want to use sick leave to cover for their mess and wont call in fatigued. For the record, I've called in fatigued 4 times so far (no pay) and am gearing up for the next one as we speak. I'm about to foreclose on my home, but I don't need the money bad enough to make my wife a widow. Especially just to save this piece of crap company from itself.

Until it costs them cancellations, they WILL push you beyond the safe limit of hours worked, and couldn't care less about you being tired

 

The CAL FA's are now telling me that about 50 to 100 of them have quit in the past couple of months because they are tired of the 120 hour reserve schedules. They canceled flights yesterday due to a lack of FA's. This company needs to sort out what's going on or they are going to be in deep poop quickly.

 

That all is true I am sure but is it no coverage or no coverage because how tight they have the trip trade parameters? Is it because they don't want to pay you more than 2.8 for your vacation time. I see it all the time 7 guys on reserve and no trade because "no coverage" Nard to judge the coverage by our pathetic trip trade system.

 

No offense but your trip being approved (or your other trade issues) is of no interest in whether or not we are staffed in management's view.

If that day you tried to trade your trip we ended up with "0" reserves but at the same time your trade was denied, management considers it a success while you see it as a staffing failure.

That is why we need some sort of staffing formula on the new contract, so that your attempted trade it deemed as an unsuccessful staffing event and the company should be penalized in some sort of way for that failure.

So to answer your question as to "Says who management"? well yes, it is management.

 

Great post. We talked about during our lunch that these ACP's may make a small error in their analysis to see how smart their "class" is that day. This ACP made the same claim earlier this week, someone corrected him, he shrugged it off with the what make the diff between '98, '99 2000 furhough etc when if fact we had '05 captains,,,, oh well.

Yes we made it through this summer, I wouldn't be shocked to find out that they considered us overstaffed. PUKE,,,

 

How you manage your schedule and sick time is your business. I did not mention or recommend to take sick time. But don't get on a public forum and complain about 33 hrs. in five days. It's up to you to know when and if you can pull that kind of duty. You can ASAP it right up to the point of scratching the paint, but guess where the fingers are going to point. If you can safely pull that kind of time then so be it, and yes, it appears CAL got over the hump. Just don't wonder how they continue to pull it off. I advertise, drop, trade down, and occasionally have an earache. But I don't fly 90 hrs. a month. I'm only in the mid-60 percentage in base, and still find options. However, I would prefer not to have to jump through hoops to try and get a livable schedule, one like I had ten or so years ago. The airline needs to be staffed better, and until pilots stop the Stockholm Syndrome with scheduling, it will not. We have over 1000 guys who would be happy to help. And sorry if "Lemmings" offends you. Not a personal attack. I took no offense to the 9 to 5 three days a week comment. I do end up working a few weekends and some holidays, which is appropriate for my seniority. Cheers, I always get the first round.

 

Didn't Pete Mcdonald send a letter to Bathurst years ago stating the company would be willing to consider more vac drops if Alpa would consider vac drops at 2.8 hrs/day?