I sense a degree of frustration so please, never, ever let a bulletin board lead you to think it might represent some sort of mainstream or majority opinion about any issue. They don't.

Taken in the context of a combined Continental/United pilot group of 11,000 or so pilots, one only has to look at the relatively low participation rate to understand that postings represent individual opinions only, and are not of a sufficient number or random nature to represent group opinion or to be statistically significant.

Me personally...I'm thrilled. I've worked and lived long enough to finally see what it's going to be like not to have to lug around 35 pounds of paper only to use five to seven small sheets for most flights. I'm generally in favor of most tech improvements whether aircraft or support equipment.

Just remember my opinion doesn't mean cXXp either on a bulletin board. At their best, they're good for disseminating information. At their worst, these things have a tendency to turn into sandbox fights on a pre-school playground. :(

I apologize for my tone, and please don't let me being a bumhole keep you from contributing. I get hyper sensitive to comments suggesting I should be happy or satisfied with the scraps the company occasionally drops. It's really too bad that we've become as jaded a group as we have, but after getting railroaded for a decade straight, the rose colored glasses are off. Hopefully we get a decent contract someday and I'll be able to look at things with a little less anger.

I will let you know how the iPad integration goes once we get familiar. I see potential there with wifi in the future. Hopefully the bean counters do to.

seriously....
 

Sometimes it's just better to say nothing...

Like this time....

OK since there has been a bunch of bashing here I will add my two cents or less:

First I believe the iPads are a great idea and have found their time at UAL/CAL. I welcome them with open hands.

Now for you paranoid types out there.

I have over three decades at UAL as a pilot and really could care less if they tracked my where abouts to the lavatory because I have nothing to hide. But, remember the iPad they give you is company property. This means if you send emails of a personal nature that include harassment of others and or the over throwing of UAL management or fill it with P**n you can be disciplined up to and including being fired.

The point is the Company owned iPAds are not being giving to pilots for person entertainment (although there is nothing wrong for doing so in a limited way). They are provided to improve your work place and the efficiency of operating UAL Airplanes.

Paranoid, afraid, and do I think these should be refused until I get a contract? No, no and let's see do I want my life to be any harder than it has to be????? No it's OK to get the tool to make my life a bit easier at work today!

I can see by the replies on this board that we are our own worst enemies. It is obvious that many of you do not go to union meetings. If you can't go to the meetings, your reps are a simple phone call away.

For those United guys that welcome the IPads:

What are you carrying now? Nothing. We have shipsets (which...BTW are NOT going away until we have a class 2 or 3 EFB). But you will be carrying an expensive electronic device around that YOU are responsible for. Just wait until it gets broken.

What can you do with it on your layovers? NOTHING none aircraft/company related. They have been blocked for personal use (even if you could, why would you as the the company can track/confiscate them at anytime). If you do turn them on...and the company has been trying to get ahold of you on your layover guess what? You have just been notified and there is a record of it.

They WILL NOT be used below 10,000.' (Gee....you would know that if you had been paying attention).

The "shiny toy syndrome" is alive and well. Maybe next year they'll offer us some really cool sunglasses or a new company pen.

Talk to your reps...find out why ALPA legal has been trying to turn this off.

Thanks for that.

The only way I am interested in this device is if it's MOUNTED in the plane. I have no interest in schlepping it around. And if it can't be used on the ground or below 10,000 were it is probably the MOST useful, then what the hell good is it?

At my last airline, you were REQUIRED to sign in on the company PC prior to flying your trip. This was a great opportunity for the company to "revise your trip" and you had NO say in it. Might as well have been on reserve. Guess what? You were also REQUIRED to sign into the company computer at the conclusion of your trip. You guys that run to catch a commuter flight or the UN bus....well tough luck. The company would use your "sign out" to assign you additional flying and junior man you into all kinds of crap. Think your current contract protects you from that? Perhaps, perhaps not. I for one don't want to find out the hard way. One only look at the onerous crap in the CAL contract to see what they want all of us to suffer with.

Don't like it? Too bad. Call the FODM, get ordered to do it and then grieve it. YOU LOST.

UAL has already shown that they love to manipulate their employees and spy on them.
No thanks.

Jeff has the ability to turn this place into a phenomenal place to work. So far, he has shown no interest in the worker bees. Think "SWA". I am ready to pull on the rope.

SHIPSETS YES, iPAD, maybe later. Keep your eyes on the ball and not on this.

James already carries all the electronic stuff he needs and doesn't need mother UAL to jerk him around any more.

I respect the opinions of those who would not take the iPad offered to them by UAl, but many of you remind me of a Captain I knew on the B727. He went on and on about how much better his "situational awareness" was using a steam gauges, HSI, RDMI, ADI, a single ADF, two VORs, an ILS and no auto throttles over we "cripples" in the glass fleets.

Well, a picture is worth a thousand cross checks (as long as one has the correct picture displayed) so I'll just have to be a cripple.

I also believe if I can take care of a 300 million dollar piece of machinery filled with people and freight I can take care of a $900 iPad.

Bring em on!

PS. No it's not some shiny new pen or pair of sunglasses and that statement is just a bunch of hyperbole.

Oh well my two cents taint worth two cents I guess.

Your entire post in bold is not necessary to "get" your personal opinion. While it isn't SHOUTING, it is pointless emphasis and is negligible in advancing your opinion about Ipad/EFB's.

I'm a tool/technology guy. I like the idea. Some people don't. That's OK. Some people don't like anything unless ALPA blesses it. That's OK too. Some people don't like anythng that's Smisek's idea. Whatever. So be it. It's a big, multi-cultural world out there.

That's just my personal opinion.;)

Old Mistake-o,


So here is the plan. You get to choose, an iPad or a traditional flight bag. This is the rumor I heard. So the decision will truly be yours. Supposedly shipsets are going away. By the way, I believe the only contractual language regarding charts is that the company will make them available at no cost.

I am going to link something for you and tell me what you read and see...

United Airlines Invests in 11,000 iPads

If you can read the link you will see that the ipad will have a Jepp App. The picture if you can't read shows a ORD 20-9 page on the ipad. I think the issue with electronics below 10K is for mass usage by passengers. As you might have been able to read from other post ipads and efb's have been in use below 10K for quite sometime. But why should you be willing to interest yourself in facts when emotion works so much better for you?

This one time at band camp....Seriously, at a previous carrier we had to turn seatbelts. We had to manually record OOOI times and we stayed in crappy hotels. Does that mean the same is coming to UA?

Appears these ipads are wifi only. So how would the company be able to notify you outside of the airplane (if wifi installed) without being connected? They can still get you with the ACARS and other methods.

You remind me of the old coots that were afraid when we got ACARS with screens and printers versus the old 10 character units.


I do believe the current contract covers the requirements of reassignment. Just out of curiosity, how many times have you been reassigned in the past year?

So you grieve it and lose. Then that would mean the reassignment was legal.

As I mentioned earlier, if you are worried about being spied upon at work here is something that will keep you in the clear. DON'T DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL WHILE AT WORK.



Talking about yourself in the third person. Nice.

The Jimmy - YouTube

So here is the plan. You get to choose, an iPad or a traditional flight bag. This is the rumor I heard. So the decision will truly be yours. Supposedly shipsets are going away. By the way, I believe the only contractual language regarding charts is that the company will make them available at no cost.

Wrong. The shipsets are staying. Instead of spreading rumors why don't you contact your rep and find out the true story? I can provide you with the phone number if you don't have it.

UalHvy:

You're kind of heavy handed on this subject and your "facts" aren't all correct. You put down people here who are loyal our union, ALPA, and "get it" in the right places.

The iPad is a process and isn't the end to flight bags or ship sets in the near future and I haven't heard one person, line or management, who has said otherwise.

So quit spouting your hyperbole and trying to stir fear into your fellow pilots, it doesn't help your cause one bit.

The EWR asst chief told me the iPad would replace the company manuals. He also said that that Jepps would go to shipset at CAL for now and then on the iPad later. It was a issue with power and mounting of the pad. This has nothing to do with the union or contract. The company is switching from paper to digital like the rest of the world. I'll be glad to carry less weight.

Are you sure? Should you take ALPA's word when you ALPAites say ALPA hasn't been involved. Heard it from TK the end game is no shipsets.

L

For you Mel Gibson "conspiracy theory" fans.

htthttp://www.iphonestuffs4u.com/tur...nd-iphone/p://

Also the MEC might want to take advantage of the truth about iPads versus idiotic MEC updates that are non-sense. Of course ALPA is the same organization that doesn't embrace technology. Does ALPA even know what century it is? No video conferencing for union meetings. Antiquated balloting and communication methods.

ALPA has lost the pilot population with it's stance on age 65, stove pipe, lawsuit , thuggish actions and the in fighting and personalities that are drawn to ALPA. All those ALPA drops over Christmas and New Years. ALPA is as dirty of an association as Smisek or Tilton. The only difference is they have convinced you that they are on your side while charging you for the pleasure.

L

I'm with you 100%. I'm leaving the toy at CPO or at home until it's mandatory, which will be a long long time.

Thank you sir, I appreciate it. I should have started my initial post off a little better too, and apologize for any misunderstandings.

Antoine opened up the discussion with an overview of the impending iPad implementation. Wayne Aleshire, who is involved with the implementation of the iPad as our ALPA SME (subject matter expert), gave us a detailed insight into the botched implementation of the iPad by management and how they had essentially ignored any input from ALPA. The result is a poorly conceived Class 1 EFB, which cannot be used below 10,000ft and has no way of being charged in the cockpit. The iPad will be a very powerful tracking tool for management, both in terms of physical location and any Internet / email activity that is performed on it will all be readily available to management. ALPA’s advice on this will be clear, do not use this device for anything other than work-related activity.

I'm sure that you trust management over local reps.

Surprise surprise. Who'd a thunk it?

To be clear, I am not a luddite and IF this thing were properly integrated into the cockpit (mounted or somehow attached) and IF it were tethered to real time wifi and we could use the current area radar, notams, moving map for stormy dark night taxi and no nefarious use by Jeffco was guaranteed and IF I didn't have to carry it around and be responsible for it, etc etc, great.

The "if you're responsible for the jet" argument holds no water with me. I leave the jet at the gate. Apples and oranges IMO.

Is it a cool tool? Yes. But if its implementation mirrors the current transition training debacle than it's going to be a mess.

I used to be very proud of the safety culture at UAL. Now I am beginning to have my doubts.

James is still reasonably content with the ship sets.

This from a CAL buddy:

I Pads: Yes they do exist: They are in a warehouse in Ohio at this point. We are awaiting IT approval to install the software that we want to have on the units. That approval is expected next week. The first I Pads will be given to the check airmen to have them work any bugs out of the system before we distribute them. The first fleet to be issued will be the A-320 and then the B-737. All fleets will have them before the end of the year. They will be used to replace the manuals in the aircraft, but not the Jepps. They will be a backup source to the Jepps. Without being able to be attached to either the aircraft or your leg they are not authorized for use below 10,000 feet which make them useless for what we need. We do not want them on the leg because we are concerned about interference with the yoke. The master plan is to use the EFB's on the aircraft that are equipped (or will be equipped) with them (B-756 and B-777). That EFB certification may take up to a year to complete. We are looking at ways to attach the I Pads to the aircraft with Velcro or some other means to help us bridge that gap. So there are still a few loose ends before this all become reality. We are working on it.

And this from the UA negotiating update:

" The JNC presented management with a counter to the iPad LOA "

Not a chance. CAL invented "over promise, under deliver." First it was August, then September, now end of year.

I will report here when I, a lowly line pilot, have one in my hands. If it's before the first of the year, I will be digitally surprised.

......At "Wright-Patt" AFB stored right next to the Roswell/UFO remains.;)

Great!! Another 'training item' in which the Company can toss our way to just "CBT".....Oh yeah, BTW.....have it done by tomorrow, and we'll 'think' about paying you!!

Personally, residing in the camp of "believe them, when I see them".

Wow............I'm from Roswell and least we know the spacecraft and aliens EXISTED...........unlike these iPads. ;) However, I'm as skeptical as any since we're still waiting for the iridium phones that they supposedly were installing over FIVE years ago............yet I've still not seen the first one. Reminds me a lot of the military............hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait.

From Roswell??? I'm Sorry ;)

Kinda like the 'now' meaningless/fancey-phrases that Jeff STILL plagiarizes from 2 mgt generations ago....."Dignity & Respect"....or how about "Working Together", that's gotta be my favorite!! Lots of ambitious talk, with little to NO result thus far on many levels.....more so than just Sat. Phones/iPads.

As we have seen thus far, a lot of 'smoke-n-mirrors'. There's largely no action on Mgt's part in setting an example by leading this new entity in being a World Class Airline.

Sorry, drift corrected....iPads for all!!

SoCal,

I would not doubt the having them part, it is the use for them that we need to question.

They are probably sitting in storage next to the 1300 tasers UAL bought. After all the fanfare and pilot training with that, the only ones that ended up getting tased with the high voltage devices were pilot "volunteers". I am sure the company would love to figure out a way to use these Ipads in a repeat fashion.

They will be looking very hard for ways to use the Ipad as a weapon against the pilots, rather than a tool for the pilots...

SP

Hmmm....from Roswell, huh? Where exactly were your parents from then? :D

Aliens ?
 

France his parents are from France ( Coneheads ? )

Can anyone confirm that ship sets have been cancelled?

I have NOT been told to dig out my old flight bag out my closet but with all the new changes around here, I believe anything.....On the United side, we were told Ipads by years end...What year I have no clue!

Have not heard anything about 'cancelled'.

I'm sure they're just sitting comfortably in a cold, dark room right along side the pallets of iPads that 'await'.

BTW....Steve Jobs - RIP.

Heard Shipsets are dead for now at CAL.

Along with the Dynamic Bidding Model, offline PBS bidding, and the "loan" payback.

So many promises, so few fulfilled.

More like "NONE" fulfilled.

I heard we are getting a free 10 Yr old Taser with he IPad

If you look through the new FM, they section that references bags (wont list specifics for safety reasons), says CAL will still have the ability to carry the same as L-UAL pilots PLUS one flight kit. TIFWIW.

*** side are you on???? I agree with him, no contract, no favors! Simple, they bought em', let them figure it out. I will take the paper ones if thats the way they want to play...I personally am tired of being given the attitude you propose, "take it or else".

I assume you are CAL??? THAT sir is why you have the FAR's for a contract. Not much thinking there now is there?? Beatin down?? Being from ol' EAL, we watched as the CAL group stole our aircraft, flying, fuel farms, reservation system, did it all with **** work rules that no one wanted to work under etc etc....but no I aint holdin a grudge.;)

It's high time BOTH groups grow some *** Put it to em. Let them keep those IPADS in the warehouse until they pony up!

J

Latest I heard was CAL gets iPads likely in May 2012 now. Have to get mount designed, FAA approved, contracted out, and installed. Power source same deal. UAL 320s get them first.

Enough with the arrogance.

I get this attitude from Wendy's video too, "...what they fail to appreciate is the maturity of this pilot group..." as if to say the CAL pilots are a bunch of idiots that dont know any better, but the UAL brain trust will show them the way?

Give me a break... Let's talk about what's going on at the LEC level in your union's west coast locals. You guys are about to be played.

Why not lead by example rather than throwing stones?

Sounds real good, but until we see it demonstrated, it's just talk and self promotion.

Are you the tip of the spear refusing to pick up your iPad, or are you one of the people not doing the training so you go lost qual even though the union has admitted they really can't stand behind you?