Ipad efb
 

Looks like Ipad is coming...

Link to FlightGlobal.com

United-Continental eyes paperless flight decks with iPads
By Mary Kirby

United-Continental intends to convert to paperless flight decks and deploy 11,000 Apple iPad tablet computers to all United and Continental pilots.
"The electronic flight bags replace paper flight manuals, and as a first for major network carriers, provide pilots with paperless aeronautical navigational charts through an iPad app," said United-Continental in a brief statement today.
The company will provide further details of its strategy during a media briefing tomorrow at Chicago O'Hare. At that time, United pilots will be available on an aircraft to demonstrate how the iPads will be used on the flight deck, said the carrier.
United is the latest US operator looking to turn the highly popular iPad into an electronic flight bag (EFB).
Alaska Airlines in May became the first US domestic airline to formally announce plans to issue iPads to all its pilots for use as Class 1 portable, kneeboard EFBs, following a successful trial.
In conjunction with replacing paper manuals, Alaska is exploring the replacement of paper aeronautical navigation charts with electronic versions on the iPad, eliminating the need for every pilot to carry their own copy.
Delta Air Lines recently started testing iPads - and will test other tablets - as part of a broad initiative aimed at transforming its communications with crew, and flight operations.

I get to lose one of three binders. Hope they have a secure place to put it in the crew room because it isn't coming home.

It won't be in our hands before 2012.

I'll keep it safe for you. Just tell me where you are going to put it.

Some of you guys would ***** and complain if they were giving gold bars away. Just amazing.

OMG!!! You hit THE nail on the head!!! Same 'ol guys too, every time!!

LOL!

J

I think you miss the point. We could care a less about iPads. We want the contract settled. Period.

Actually I would love it if they passed out gold bars. I would even send Jeff a fruit basket as a thank you. The iPad on the other hand, well I already have one and I personally couldn't give a rats ass about getting one.

I injured my back getting my brain bag in and out of the 737. I would love to go electronic, but never at the expense of any contract/negotiations/pilot issue. I was told by an asst chief that the 737 guys would start getting them in August or September (of this year). I laughed. I was told the same thing about the EFB's in the 757 by a different asst chief over 5 years ago. I believe they are coming; I don't believe the timing. I don't care either way, but my back will. ;)

What you said....Simply put.

I want the contract settled just as much as the next guy but this is a good thing. At least mgmt isn't making us bargain for it.:rolleyes:

Atleast not yet!!!

Believe me, I'm sure it crossed Fred-o's mind at the table.

Unfortunately I think you're right.
;):mad:

As someone else mentioned, "I'll gladly carry an iPad efb if it comes preloaded with a ratfied JCBA".

Also, remember that UAL was sued (and lost) for spying on pilots without their knowledge. Can anyone think of a better platform to spy on each and every pilot? With United's recent disregard for privacy, it would be foolish for any pilot to store personal info on a company iPad.

Exactly. When a company data mines everything under the sun against it's employees, what's to prevent them from using another electronic device for their goals?

Remember that they are NOT doing us a favor by giving us iPads. They are saving money. I don't know the money numbers, but OJI back injuries are very expensive. I know this first hand from a herniated L4-5 disk.

The company also said the weight savings alone is 326,000 gallons of fuel per year. That is $1.4 million per year in savings TO THE COMPANY. Add that to the workers comp costs and loss of flying by injured pilots. Since they are saving money, we can get a raise. :D

Gotta imagine the Apple corporate nerds shared a fair amount of laughs after getting done with meetings with a tech savant like Fred.

What's the value as a bargaining chip? I already don't carry a flight bag. The only thing this will do that a flight bag won't is spy on me.

TW

SJS Syndrome,

See here's the things you are missing.

I don't care what I'm flying, FUPM.
I don't care what I'm wearing, FUPM.
I don't care what I'm carrying, FUPM.
Don't even THINK about touching my crew meal.

You'd have to be a complete moron to use the iPad for ANYTHING other than work, or to take it ANYWHERE other than on your trips... We know who our management is.

Most of us just really don't care, because it doesn't make any difference. We don't carry bags anymore, so it's not a convenience for us. For those of us that don't have wifi on board (all except a few PS 757's at UAL), there is no information that we can obtain that is new.

Now..... if you put wifi on all the airplanes, and I could actually use the thing to get real time weather, have a moving map taxi diagram, have access the company computer during flight to track my commute home, etc. etc., THEN I'd see it as a real benefit. Right now, it's not any of those things.

See, you were wrong in your post. It's the gold bars that we want. When they start giving THOSE away, we will be happy. Oh, and when we get rid of those career wrecking RJ's. That will make us happy too.

If I don't have a new contract and can't download Angry Birds on it, I don't want it!

Real Back Problems
 

Speaking of gold bars. You think that "38 pound" bag is heavy, try lugging around gold bars equivalent to the amount of money this company has cheated it's pilots out of since this merger was announced.

I ain't taking any responsibility for no stupid iPad off the property. Although I'll gladly take it to Lima... I'll be leaving mine on the shelf where my brain bag used to sit when not in use. If you can find it, you can have it.

See ya at the union meetings.

Hey, these Ipads have an internal GPS tracking device right ? Meaning.....the company have the right to know their location at any giving time......right ? Humm

Right... Which means that anyone who ever turns the thing ON when not on paid company time is not thinking clearly

I expect reimbursement for my electric bill since we will be expected to show up with them charged. I would be less antagonistic and uncooperative if I had a descent contract and or better management.

UAL gets Ipads and Steve Jobs quits, any connections?

If he was that upset about it, couldn't he just block the sale? He was the CEO.

Not sure what the SJS moniker is about, since I fly a small 25 year old turboprop (Brasilia), which is listed next to my profile. I've already done the "SJS" thing, and have a PIC type rating in a j-j-j-jettt! I don't care what I'm flying, as long as I'm getting a paycheck.

Apparently you're confusing the purpose of the iPad and what it will do. It is a tool to replace charts and manuals, and goes a long way towards organizing information in a way that is very intuitive and useful to a pilot. I spent several years flying a plane that was totally paperless, which included the use of iPads. It is a win win situation, and I can see no reason why anybody would complain about it.

As far as the company using it to track you, that is extremely paranoid, but I'm sure you have your reasons. Anyway, the fix is simple... Just shut it down when you're done with your flight.

Not sure why you mentioned "career wrecking RJs", but you're preaching to the choir. Get rid of every damn one of 'em. Regionals should just be flying small turboprops in my opinion... The last thing I plan on doing is spending my career at a regional airline, and it would be nice if the majors became a place to go to again.

You don't need to pull the iPad out for security, and I would be very surprised if your company does not issue some type of protective case for it.

Mine will be turned ON during preflight, OFF during postflight, and stored at the airport between trips.

It will never be ON in the hotel and it will never be at my home.

Notes:

OFF isn't just closing the magnetic top. Press and hold the sleep/wake button until the slider appears, then slide to OFF. Otherwise, it can track you.

Doesn't have to be taken out at security. No keyboard or platters.

Protective case is included, with UAL logo on it.

Union should direct that the cockpit A/C outlet be used to recharge it, not done in hotel or home. It's their device, not ours.

If you find that you like the iPad for personal use, buy one. Steve Jobs needs the money for retirement. There are way too many issues with using a company computer for personal stuff.

The SJS Moniker was thrown in there because your first post indicated that not being excited about the Shiny New Toy means that we are whining sniveling idiots. Shiny New Toy Syndrome goes hand in hand with Shiny New Jet Syndrome.

Just because one flies the Bro doesn't mean one don't have SJS. You next post seems to indicate that you "get it", so I will retract the SJS.

Here's the thing though... As an EMB-120 FO, who is new to the airline side of the industry (sounds like you flew corporate), you should be careful making statements about what kind of attitudes the guys with the experience should have. Since there isn't a pilot on the property right now with less than about 12 years, everyone that was leaving a comment has experience. I wouldn't go over to the corporate section and start spouting off to those folks about what their attitude should be, as I have very limited corporate experience. I figure they know their issues best.

You think we are paranoid? Buddy... you have no idea. The company was videoing/recording our conversations in ops for years before we found out. Our Management is reading this conversation (Hi guys!!!). And trust me, they WILL use the iPads to track our movements, compare it to sick list usage etc. If you work for United, and you AREN'T paranoid, you are stupid.

Another correction to your assessment. The iPad is nothing but an inconvenience for me without Wifi installed in the airplane. Right now, with Shipsets, I have nothing that I need to carry. Now I've got to carry another iPad. I have my own, which I will continue to use, so now I'm going to be dragging around 2 of them. And what information does it give me that I don't already have? Zero. What happens if I lose it? Break it? You think the company is going to pat me on the head and say "That's ok, we'll just get you another one?" HELL no they won't. It will come out of my paycheck! Paperless is all fine and good, but how hard is it for me to open up a book and find a chart? Like I said in the first post, if they put Wifi in all the jets, then that is a completely different story. If I had access to real time weather, moving map taxi charts, etc. etc., then THAT would make it a very valuable resource. But we don't, and apparently aren't going to considering they just announced they are going to spend $500 million in cabin upgrades, and WIFI on the UAL airplanes that don't have it wasn't in the announcement.

Right about now you are rolling your eyes and thinking you know how I should feel. Put another 20 years in and then come talk to me. You'll see. In the meantime, you can keep your snotty comments to the regional board. They might go over better there.

That is a ridiculous statement. You want to charge it for free? Show up to ops 1 hours before check-in and plug it in to the UA outlet.

Also, I think your wish for a descent contract has been granted. Our wages are a steep descent from previous contract. Now if wanted DECENT contract that is another thing.

Let's hope you get the ipad with a post content and word usage checker app.

You are on CCTV in almost every location you visit. The company has a right to video survey the area if they want, as it is their property. How many guys complained about lack of video in the hallways in ORD where stuff was pilfered from luggage. The company installs video and the same clowns claim they are being put under undue scrutiny.

Here is a novel idea. Don't do anything illegal at work and you won't have to worry about videos.

. The tracking mode of the ipad is a switch position. Turn it off viola you are free to call in sick from Siam. Of course why you would take your company ipad to Siam is up to you. Where are the rules that say you have to be home to call in sick? How many guys do you know that have been fired for calling sick from somewhere other than home???

So you would rather carry a fifty pound flight bag, rather than 2 pounds of ipads? I have heard the Shipsets were not great money savers. They could easily tell you that you have to start schleping that anchor around again. Your math is not really adding up but that appears to be the case in the rest of you post also.

If you believe the TK rumor mill the wifi is coming to all the airplanes. The addition of live weather will be available with this. But again we can't get to that step until we adopt the ipad's. So it is the chicken or the egg.

What happened if you lost your old FOM? They charged you for it, right? Here is something that may not be of some use to you. Now is the time for you to become a responsible adult. You are entrusted with several million dollars worth of airplanes and assets each time you take off. Now you are being given a $400 ipad, try to use some of that skill and cunning that has kept the airplane out of the weeds and prevent breaking your ipad. If you have ONE now then you are obviously adept at keeping it from being broken.

Don't be such a Richard Cranium.

I think the IPad haters think the company should take care of the employees first and foremost by giving us a decent contract, and then worry about ipads and paint. After the last decade and all we've been through, I get it. However, I flew a corporate gig during my 1st furlough that used efb's that were fairly large and cumbersome compared to the IPad. They still ROCKED! When I went back to UAL and had to carry a flight bag and do Jepp revisions, I wanted to shoot myself.
I am impressed that the company is willing to get with the 21st century and provide a sleek, light efb platform. It's about f-ing time. And, if it saves the company money in the long run, that may help our plight for a real pay-scale. Just my opinion, FWIW.
Will we be able to view FOM's and AFM's on the IPads too? Or just Jepp charts?

My understanding is that the reverse will be the case to start. FOM and AFM will be loaded and we will be able to immediately stop carrying the hard copies. Jepps will come later as FAA hasn't approved their use without a constant power source. However, CAL is going to shipset Jepps vice individual sets, so that will help.

The company is spinning this into publicity about being modern and eco-friendly. In negotiations they're stalling while hundreds of millions of dollars continue to go from our pockets to theirs.

I think the unions should direct that no pilot sign for an iPad until "safety-related issues are worked out regarding the training and implementation of this technology." Let them sit in a warehouse and let the company suffer the negative publicity of not thinking the issue through, just like their train-by-bulletin and staff-by-junior man practices.

I agree that doing revisions is about the most pointless exercise out there, but what is more frustrating is knowing every paycheck is a lot less than it ought to be. It feels like I'm paying the company each month.

They made a half billion dollars. They're upgrading the fleet and refurbishing terminals at a price of nearly two billion. But they can't discuss our scheduling section with us in a rational way?

IPads are a welcome relief. So is a little sunshine to a hostage, but they're still a hostage.

"I spent several years flying a plane that was totally paperless, which included the use of iPads."

wrxpilot- what do you mean by "several years". And are you including iPads in that time?

They may as well give away the 11000 tasers they have stored as well



Regarding the iPad. You can always turn it off

I hear ya, APC, I am no Marvin Mainliner. You guys that are on property can put your collective feet down and tell the company "no thanks" We'll have the contract first please.
On the outside looking in, it seemed like a good thing. Perhaps if they would have done it years ago, and not under the current circumstances and under the pretense of being all green and eco-friendly when so many of us are hurting . It is BS, they should deal with the big picture first.....take care of the employees. Period, the end.

A little under three years. It was a CJ3 with ProLine 21 (with charts displayed on the IFIS), and included the use of iPads. Though we implemented the iPads during the last year I was there, and I had about 12 months of using it as a backup for our charts and manuals. This was all part 91.

Sorry if you feel that I don't have anything to contribute here, so I'll go ahead and stay out of this area from now on. But before I bow out, I'll just say this:

No offense was intended, and I'm sorry if you feel that way. But I really do think you will see a QOL enhancement once these are implemented. Clearly you have much more 121 experience than I do, but I don't really see what that has to do with using iPads as EFBs. I've worked in a department that used them, therefore I have experience with how useful they are in the cockpit. It seems like a win-win for you and your company, but apparently you don't feel that way. Once this does go through (or I guess, if it does...), I would be interested to see how you feel about it after you've had some time to transition over. Anyway, I'm out...

A little different than what is being talked about then. Classes and Types...
:cool: