Airline Pilot Central Forums - Profit sharing 2011

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- United (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/)

- - Profit sharing 2011 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/62869-profit-sharing-2011-a.html)

I am curious. Why is it that the CAL pilots do not get to participate in the profit sharing?

We're a charitable group. We prefer that everyone else enjoys the spoils.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A320 (Post 1078897)

I am curious. Why is it that the CAL pilots do not get to participate in the profit sharing?

Dig up a copy of the TPA and read section 8. CAL's pilots don't have a choice on building a 737 domicile in DEN and ORD, just as UAL's pilots don't have a choice on building an airbus domicile in IAH.

From page one of this thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWRflyr (Post 1073377)

From this week's CAL MEC Position Report (Friday, October 21, 2011):

The next topic I want to address is profit sharing. Recently, I have received comments from pilots who are upset that the CAL pilot group is the only employee group at both CAL and UAL not in the 2011 profit sharing pool. I completely agree with those who have expressed their anger over this. I do not know how management can morally exclude those most responsible for generating profit, especially a management that touts the concept of dignity and respect.

First, I am going to try and clear up some misunderstanding about how we got to this point, and why the Continental pilots are not currently part of the 2011 profit sharing pool – the fault rests solely with management. There has never been a time when the union has not tried to maintain our enrollment in the profit sharing plan. The unfortunate fact is that as part of Contract ’02, profit sharing had a sunset date that caused it to end in December 2009. I don’t know why it was negotiated that way, but it was, and we must deal with the reality. You cannot change the past – only attempt to shape the future. Moving forward to 2010, we recognized that there was a real possibility that, absent a new agreement on profit sharing, we would be left out when payments were made for 2010. As a part of the Transition and Process Agreement (TPA), we were able to negotiate one more year of inclusion. You received those checks last February. Our pilot group benefitted in the neighborhood of $40M by adding that single year of profit sharing. Would we have liked to get more? Yes. Did we try and achieve more? Yes. We tried to negotiate inclusion in perpetuity, but were not able to achieve that goal through the TPA. It is important to understand that the TPA’s main purpose was not to fix major contractual issues, but to provide a transition to a new JCBA. We remain convinced that Continental pilots should maintain our enrollment in the profit sharing plan. The TPA was the vehicle we used for achieving that goal for 2010 and we are still working on other ways to secure inclusion for this year and beyond. Should we be unsuccessful, the profit sharing amounts will be considered as one more part of the retro negotiations.

In reading the position report it sounds to me like Continental ALPA failed to negotiate the profit sharing thru a time when a new agreement would replace the existing one. United ALPA made the assupmtion that United would always be the "accquiring airline" so they didn't think it was necessary to waste negotiating leverage to insure that no pilots would be furloughed in the event of a merger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coto Pilot (Post 1079131)

And...both were understandable at the time but now flawed hindsight.

Moving on people.....

I don't mean to trivialize the above two points by the previous post. Hindsight or not, my apologies if it was construed that way.

In fact, I would imagine that a non-cash, stock swap, new stock issue merger of both companies with the new company's key operating divisions run by Continental people is still a "difficult" concept to grasp by many. Some are still in denial. Furlough issues notwithstanding.

It is also easy to assume that profit sharing would be available contractually or not since it is unilaterally offered to non-union employee groups.

Lesson...change happens, assume nothing.

Lesson Two:

Assume that if you work (as labor vs management) for an airline, hell almost any big corporation in the US these days that your sphincter will get stretched repeatedly and you will be left holding a bag of promises while the companies principles get theirs up front and in big bags and huge tranches of stock.

NO to future profit sharing. Give us the money now.

James be broke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A320 (Post 1078298)

I take it you are just thrilled to access Denver flying with the UAL side potentially being forced out. Nice.

No, not at all. That's not what I said. I was making an observation that CAL pilot profit sharing has got nothing to do with the other. You should support it without any worries that it is going to impact you whatsoever. A DEN base does impact all of us, especially the L-UAL side.

THAT was my only point. Our profit sharing should be a given, no questions asked. Again, an apples-to-oranges comparison of the two subjects. Our profit sharing should not be held hostage to the more complicated base issue.

"Our profit sharing should be a given, no questions asked."

First lesson in working for United Airlines, the term Given is nowhere to be found out of the mouths of management or on any contract. Let's face it. Jeff is Tilton's hand puppet. I agree that all employees should be entitled to the same profit sharing program regardless of work group. It would minimize animosity.