Realist vs. Idealist
01-06-2012, 02:55 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 73 CA EWR
Posts: 514
Realist vs. Idealist
I am glad Captain Pierce could look through all the moving parts and come up with a workable solution that benefits his membership. Inaction due to idealistic servitude accomplishes nothing positive near or far term despite what the armageddon clan rationalizes.
01-06-2012, 04:59 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Clueless.
In two or three years when we resemble the USAir/Cactus debacle and labor under our current pathetic contracts, perhaps you can reflect on what might have been achieved had both pilot groups toed the line for what we deserve now, and not the pathetic sliver that you'll receive next month. I've got ten bucks that says you won't get PS next year if it's not in ink today. Same crap pay and contract.
If your mindset is indicative of the average CAL pilot, will someone please tell me now so I can go get my CDL? Or perhaps just shoot me?
Seriously? 5 percent of an ethereal profit that can disappear just as quickly as it appeared??? Have you read the WSJ recently or looked at the mess in Europe?
*****127 views (!!) and I'm the FIRST to rebut this tripe? You junior CAL pukes who have already paid your dues in spades toiling in the commuters or MIL need to stand up and fight now! The quality CAL pilots I've met in ops do NOT share the original posters mindset!
I'll ask again, how does pierce go from CAL to orenstein/Mesa and then BACK to CAL, reclaim his seniority number, and then GET ELECTED to MC?? This would NEVER happen at UAL.
26 years in flying and ALPA, and f-ing amazed at what I read on this site.
In two or three years when we resemble the USAir/Cactus debacle and labor under our current pathetic contracts, perhaps you can reflect on what might have been achieved had both pilot groups toed the line for what we deserve now, and not the pathetic sliver that you'll receive next month. I've got ten bucks that says you won't get PS next year if it's not in ink today. Same crap pay and contract.
If your mindset is indicative of the average CAL pilot, will someone please tell me now so I can go get my CDL? Or perhaps just shoot me?
Seriously? 5 percent of an ethereal profit that can disappear just as quickly as it appeared??? Have you read the WSJ recently or looked at the mess in Europe?
*****127 views (!!) and I'm the FIRST to rebut this tripe? You junior CAL pukes who have already paid your dues in spades toiling in the commuters or MIL need to stand up and fight now! The quality CAL pilots I've met in ops do NOT share the original posters mindset!
I'll ask again, how does pierce go from CAL to orenstein/Mesa and then BACK to CAL, reclaim his seniority number, and then GET ELECTED to MC?? This would NEVER happen at UAL.
26 years in flying and ALPA, and f-ing amazed at what I read on this site.
Last edited by oldmako; 01-06-2012 at 07:23 PM.
01-06-2012, 06:26 PM
#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 44
I just dismissed this joker as a company shill. Or maybe just a troll. Either way, I've gotta believe CAL pilots are smarter than that and that pierce's days are numbered. It's unbelievable that a guy like that rises to CAL MEC Chair.
01-06-2012, 11:22 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 239
Originally Posted by Blockoutblockin
I am glad Captain Pierce could look through all the moving parts and come up with a workable solution that benefits his membership. Inaction due to idealistic servitude accomplishes nothing positive near or far term despite what the armageddon clan rationalizes.
"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."
—Morpheus
—Morpheus
01-07-2012, 05:15 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by boxer6
"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."
—Morpheus
—Morpheus
01-07-2012, 07:57 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 239
Originally Posted by intrepidcv11
Hey Neo, where you still in The Matrix when the UAL MEC BOHIC'd on Guppy Killers for pittance?
News Reporter Walks Into Pole - YouTube
01-10-2012, 09:44 AM
#8
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Blockoutblockin
I am glad Captain Pierce could look through all the moving parts and come up with a workable solution that benefits his membership. Inaction due to idealistic servitude accomplishes nothing positive near or far term despite what the armageddon clan rationalizes.
01-10-2012, 10:00 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 737 Cap
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by intrepidcv11
Hey Neo, where you still in The Matrix when the UAL MEC BOHIC'd on Guppy Killers for pittance?
01-10-2012, 10:37 AM
#10
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
I am quite frankly disappointed with many on both sides of this debate!
When I read this, "a workable solution that benefits his membership," I realize we, as a whole pilot group, are still thinking in the ways of our culture, "It's all about me..."
Even those "strong" and radical "unionist" on the LUAL side (my "side" BTW) are singing the same tune, "it's all about me..." The cold hard truth is this isn't all about you or I, it is about US! This job/profession is made up of men and women from various parts of the aviation globe and come together to operate these UAL (LUAL and LCAL) airplanes. When either side becomes overly "entitled" then the integration will go bad and another USAir or AA/TWA will happen.
Here's the problems as I see it:
1. Pierce see himself as the control and savior of the LCAL side and it appears he will do anything to advance HIS position at the cost of others (not unlike Sr. Management). There is no "we" in his vocabulary except when he looks in the mirror.
2. The LUAL side were spoiled (yes we are/were) during the ESOP years. We had rapid advancement, got just about all our training and QOL issues covered and then after a "Summer of Love" achieved the greatest improvement in the CBA since "Blue Skies" (yes Blue Skies was the largest single pay raise up to that point in UAL history).
3. The two current contracts are miles apart between LUAL/LCAL as are the LUAL expectations of the JCBA.
My summary:
It all adds up to why we can't get a JCBA is because the LUAL won't compromise (read takes reductions in work rules) from our current contract. All this discord between us will very shortly lead J. Pierce obtaining an "interim" CBA for the LCAL side and leave the LUAL pilots on their own.
As so many have mentioned the UCH Management has time on their hands and by simply patching the holes, can wait out and place orders for new airplanes, replace the LUAL ones and let this side, LUAL, just dry up and wither into an insignificant and meaningless side of the house.
What do I want? True working together and recognition there is another side to these talks and "compromise" must be made to achieve a JCBA and eventual SLI.
When I read this, "a workable solution that benefits his membership," I realize we, as a whole pilot group, are still thinking in the ways of our culture, "It's all about me..."
Even those "strong" and radical "unionist" on the LUAL side (my "side" BTW) are singing the same tune, "it's all about me..." The cold hard truth is this isn't all about you or I, it is about US! This job/profession is made up of men and women from various parts of the aviation globe and come together to operate these UAL (LUAL and LCAL) airplanes. When either side becomes overly "entitled" then the integration will go bad and another USAir or AA/TWA will happen.
Here's the problems as I see it:
1. Pierce see himself as the control and savior of the LCAL side and it appears he will do anything to advance HIS position at the cost of others (not unlike Sr. Management). There is no "we" in his vocabulary except when he looks in the mirror.
2. The LUAL side were spoiled (yes we are/were) during the ESOP years. We had rapid advancement, got just about all our training and QOL issues covered and then after a "Summer of Love" achieved the greatest improvement in the CBA since "Blue Skies" (yes Blue Skies was the largest single pay raise up to that point in UAL history).
3. The two current contracts are miles apart between LUAL/LCAL as are the LUAL expectations of the JCBA.
My summary:
It all adds up to why we can't get a JCBA is because the LUAL won't compromise (read takes reductions in work rules) from our current contract. All this discord between us will very shortly lead J. Pierce obtaining an "interim" CBA for the LCAL side and leave the LUAL pilots on their own.
As so many have mentioned the UCH Management has time on their hands and by simply patching the holes, can wait out and place orders for new airplanes, replace the LUAL ones and let this side, LUAL, just dry up and wither into an insignificant and meaningless side of the house.
What do I want? True working together and recognition there is another side to these talks and "compromise" must be made to achieve a JCBA and eventual SLI.
