Question to the 1437
 

I'v been reading the threads in here with great enthusiasm and I am glad to hear that some of you are coming back to work. I feel for all of you as my dad is a pilot for UA, and though never furloughed, I have seen and personally felt what all 7500 of you have gone through.

I have wanted to fly for UA since I could talk and I am on my way to pursuing that dream but I don't want to do it in the wrong manner.

My question is when all of you have had the opportunity to be a "New hire" at CO and they start hiring off of the streets will the off the street new hires be looked down on?

I refuse to be a scab and I rufuse to take another pilots job and bring shame and disgrace upon my family and myself, also, my dad would throw me into a volcano. I know its a ways away but I will not apply if it means taking another pilots job.

I have been wondering about this and I get asked this question alot by the people I fly with so any answers would be appreciated.

You fly an EMB-170 and you're worried about someone else taking jobs? Hahahahaha that's rich!

Personally, I feel that where we fly is much more important that what we fly. Protect the routes. I flew ATR's in the early '90's to destinations that AA had flown to with the F-100. They had pilots on furlough at the time.:mad:

I think your last opportunity to do that was in November of 2011. The company is now called United.

:)

The way I see it is......if they start hiring to the CAL side of the operation off the street, it's because they went through the entire UAL furlough list. At that point, the job is yours if you are qualified and actually get it. The United guys that are still out there should be able to come back at a later date and be worked into the appropriate seniority position that their original date of hire gave them, IE, above you. You're not a scab if that is the case. I could be wrong though and it wouldn't be the first time.

YES! UCH management looks down on all UAL/CAL pilots. :D

The rest of us would welcome you. :)

SP

Thank you. That is the general feeling of the line guys I talk to when I am junpseating to work but I wanted to hear from you furloughed guys.

Well played. HAHA. And thanks for the welcoming.

I look forward to flying with all of you in the future. Even you lfenthefstlne. I don't know why pilots feel the need to fight with pilots the industry that we live in today was forced down our throats. ALL pilots need to stand together to fight for it all back. I'm really pulling for you guys to take back all 70 seat scope becasue it will put all L-UAL pilots back to work and get me a job. Keep up the fight I'm counting on you.

Sorry to hear about your addiction, buckle up for the ride. It's just about guaranteed to ruin your life.

I'm bypassing on the L-CAL job offer, so you wouldn't be taking my job, I'm creating that opportunity for you by not returning. As soon as it is available I encourage you to take a position as an off the street new hire and will welcome you with open arms.

For you see, if I do return to the line in accordance with my current Guam Gone 2015 escapist vision, you will be nested nicely below me on the seniority list. I'll look down, smile, wave, buy your fine, half-winged self a nice dinner, and explain how glad I am to have you between me and my third furlough when inevitably the Smisek Synergy Machine starts trimming the list again.

So c'mon in, the water's fine. Those fins? Oh, I think there just management dolphins come to help us. :cool:

Reading your posts, I can't help but think that you are counting your chickens before they hatch. You act as if the job is already yours. Do they no longer interview candidates? I'm assuming you just throw in an application and a UAL id and training packet comes in the mail two weeks later? This is what I call entitlement. Pay your dues. You're a regional fo; you have a long way to go. Who knows, maybe they will hire you someday, but maybe they won't. Stop writing as if the job is a guarantee. Furthermore, I hope that you would proofread your application and resume' a little more than you do your posts (grammatical errors). And as far as being the kid of a ual pilot; I was one too. It don't mean squat.

If I were you I'd go to law school get your degree get hired by an airline, proceed to take everything from the pilot's that we and your father enjoy(ed). That plan would have more vertical movement than where we sit today. Once you get to mid-level management. Then, you can tell those who care to correct your grammar that they don't mean squat. You see, there is a group everywhere you go that enjoy kicking a new guy and forget where they came from. Good Luck, no sarcasm intended. This job is not what it used to be for us or those before us. I'm afraid to say it will probably get worse. Our unions tell us they are working to make improvements, maybe. The problem is the Railway Labor Act (RLA) has removed all of the teeth of our bite. The last strike by a major airline lasted one day when it was cancelled by presidential order. Our union loves the RLA, without it we don't need them. You get a far better shake in the courts than by any arbitrator. It's almost impossible to get to court in our business because of the RLA and the company’s ability to pre-empt.

Don't Disagree with you on most of your points but.....facts are facts

American Pilots in 1997 They were also APA not ALPA see a Trend?
UPS Pilot sympathy Strike in 1997. (Symapthy with Teamsters)
NWA Pilot Strike In 1998. ALPA
Comm Air Pilots in 2001. ALPA
Polar Pilot strike in 2005 ALPA
Spirit Pilot Strike in 2010. ALPA

J.C. guys, cut the kid some slack! Every one of us was in his position at one time or another. If flying for United is his passion let him follow it. I've been here 14 years and yes, it has certainly had it sucky times (like the last 10 yrs!). But like this fellow, I too was an airline kid. It's kinda in your blood. Dad was a Braniff pilot off and on for over 20 years. I say off and on because he was laid off 4 separate times. Hell I bet this kid understands how crap works better than some of you. So you know what? Save the negative crap for your current "co-workers". Good luck kid.

Lol, wow. Strange post. Filled with factual errors. Where do you get your facts?

Reality check?
 

Just because my Dad was an auto worker for Chysler in the '60s doesn't mean I would be be packing my bags for Detroit right now.

If he STILL was working there and I was too stupid to figure out on my own it wasn't a good plan to follow in his footsteps, I'd hope he would have the decency to kick my @ss.

It DOESN'T mean ****.... you might want to read what you write as well.

Here go a few answers: First... don't get caught up in the "ever since I was a child it was my dream to fly for _______ Airlines." Interview with everyone, then take the offer from what you think is the best company based on their financial outlook. In all likelihood, you'll then spend the rest of your career realizing you made the wrong decision.

Second... you most definitely won't be considered a scab if you go to UAL under the circumstances you describe and won't be looked down upon any more than some of the jackasses at UAL and CAL already look down on each other. In some respects, you might generally be treated better because you'll be starting with a clean slate. Remember, there'll be furloughed UAL pilots who bypass recall being inserted above you for some time after you're hired. Probably not a huge deal because many of those bypassing probably won't come back and it'll be less than a year's worth of seniority, but it's still worth considering.

No, I re-read everything; thank you! Used in this context, "don't" works just as well. I would use it again and will! Thanks mr. grammar!

Redeye, I guess I should stand corrected on one of those facts. I did say "major". I was referring to the AA strike that was cancelled by the President some years back, If that was not the 1997 strike I'll stand corrected. As for NWA you are correct! I did not consider UPS a "major" airline in 1997, not to say their pilots were not of "major" caliber, they were and are. The rest of the airlines you quote I would not consider to be "majors" either (again, no reflecton on the pilots, just the airline size). To counter the ALPA trend reference, I would bring up TWA pilots DFR complaint, UALs retired suit, CAL retired pilots that were told by CAL and ALPA they were cleared to go to court to contest the System Boards rejection of their claim only to be told by the 5th circuit, CAL and ALPA had no right to infer that recourse because it was not legal.
These are just my opinions, not to be construed as fact, but I always have an open mind. ( not to be construed as being blonde)

Lighten Up Francis!!

Hot Mama, his OP was not "can some mean chick jump in here and rain on my parade."
Grammar? "Who knows, maybe they will hire you someday, but maybe they won't." This is a complete run on sentence. You better be a real hot mama with all that mouth.

Ditto. If the folks who have kept people out of work by staying past age-60 aren't considered scabs, then you CERTAINLY won't be.

I'm not one of the 1437, but you would definitely NOT be a scab. If the L-CAL side of United Continental Holdings begins hiring off the street it is because they have gone through the list and given everyone more than one opportunity to fill those slots. At that point all those will have voluntarily decided to remain on the street. The scenario you describe would be completely different than being a scab and you'd be welcomed with open arms by this pilot group. (BUT, just don't hug a real scab!)

somebody get this broad a cranberry juice.

Thank you everyone for your input, and good luck.

:D Wow!!! That's really funny!!!

That's a good reason, but not nearly the best one. I hope that was an oversight, and I'll bet it was.

Right?


TW

Yes, of course it was an oversight but I can see how it can be misread so I fixed it. Thank you.

This thread would not make much since if it wasnt....

MasterOfPuppets, I'm one of the 844/2172/1437. You will NOT be looked down on or considered a scab by any of us.
If you look at all of the airlines, United has the highest percentage of retirees over the next decade. We have more than 3% of the combined list retiring every year for more than a decade. If you can get on the leading edge of hiring this cycle, I think that you will have a great career. Keep in mind that I've been labeled as an Eeyore on this website for being negative.
Best of luck to you.

I dont think you should laugh at him. He did not take any job away. All those jobs were given away by each and every pilot group that did not have the balls to stand up to management and say no to scope degradation. Additionally, the President of ALPA National has signed every one of those contracts by the likes of DAL, UAL, NWA etc effectively creating a "B-Scale" within the pilot profession. The Majors have given away those jobs, they were not taken.

Craig
UAL
DCAFO

Many of us will bypass (about 7-1) so the door is open for any and all once the list is exhausted. Word of warning though - this outfit has a historical penchant for abusing it's labor so don't put all your eggs in one basket

BFD - former LUAL A320 FO (Not coming back ;( )

BFD,
Are you flying elsewhere?

Award for the most ignorant, mean spirited and negative post of the year?

You are so correct. I can remember many an MEC member saying they wanted the big iron and let someone else fly those toy airplanes.

Stong infomation! Would you care to give name and approximate dates these guys said that? Not true, is it?

How many times are you allowed to bypass before they hire off the street?

You're allowed one bypass. After that, you have to actively contact LCAL in order to get a class date. If you accept a class date after bypassing and then turn down that class date, you will not be offered another opportunity to work at LCAL.
Assuming no major change in the hiring landscape, LCAL should be hiring off the street no later than early November.

MEC Chairman Mike Glawe, circa 1997. Something to the effect..."you want to buy RJs or 747-400s?" You can't make this stuff up. I will say, however, that there was never an offer on the table from UAL to "buy and fly" RJs. A no vote on the 1997 RJ exception letter MIGHT have forced UAL to buy and fly, but that is uncertain. Some guys on the line believe that there was some kind of "buy and fly" offer on the table. That is just not true. Kinda like the guys that think Whiteford gave away all 70 seaters with a side letter. Again, just not true. We voted in the 70 seaters in 2003 under the duress of bankruptcy. Whiteford signed a letter that included the EMB-170 into the approved 70 seaters.

Sled

Andy,
I know what a 2172 and 1437 is......but what is the 844? And, by the way, you have every right to be an Eeyore.
FX2

844 is the 'original' number of UAL pilots furloughed prior to resolution of the no-furlough clause. The total number furloughed prior to end of Mar 2002 was 844. I was in the last group of 'quick' furloughs after 9/11; I think I was furloughed on 2 Mar 2002. After that, there was a very long pause prior to the next round of furloughs - I think greater than 15 months.