I'm amazed that someone who has made it to the left seat in turbojet 121 ops has such an uninformed and distorted view of the seniority system and career expectations. DOH is the magic number dude, not the time spent on furlough. Did you just post the above to inflame or are you really that obtuse?

IOW, if you got hired at UAL while young and then got furloughed, chances are you'll still retire in the left seat of the biggest plane United flies, not the guppy. It's just that simple. And with retirements just around the corner, the ride up will be fairly swift. Certainly the furlough will suck and this "merger of equals" will set you back, but the remainder of the career is filled with potential. To imply that a furloughee of the worlds largest airline has no career expectation is just bull.

"Basic 101 stuff" indeed. :D

[QUOTE=oldmako;1135214]I'm amazed that someone who has made it to the left seat in turbojet 121 ops has such an uninformed and distorted view of the seniority system and career expectations. DOH is the magic number dude, not the time spent on furlough. Did you just post the above to inflame or are you really that obtuse?

IOW, if you got hired at UAL while young and then got furloughed, chances are you'll still retire in the left seat of the biggest plane United flies, not the guppy. It's just that simple. And with retirements just around the corner, the ride up will be fairly swift. Certainly the furlough will suck and this "merger of equals" will set you back, but the remainder of the career is filled with potential. To imply that a furloughee of the worlds largest airline has no career expectation is just bull.

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You know Mako, that JCAB will have over 2,000 NO voters just from furloughed guys alone if longevity is not restored. And considering voter apathy in the past, this will represent a huge bloc. Plus, we have have many L-UAL bubbas supporting us.

As for SLI, twill be in the hands of the three member panel. Further, ALPA merger policy has been revised with regards to career expectations as well as longevity and will be under consideration, and well it should be.

Perhaps these who wish ill upon us so as to create their own small seniority grab and carve-out will eat their words. One can only hope.

I for one have your back, and 2,147 others.

Dude chill out. you will lose your medical and YOU could be on the street.

No expectations for you either, so YOU could be stapled......


Chill out, it does not help


The Harvard dude loves these kind of arguments. really

[QUOTE=SOTeric;1135233]Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't think furloughed folks have a vote? But my real emphasis is read the ALPA merger policy and the Delta/NWA arbitration ruling. What struck me, was the obvious turn to avoid USAIR and America West scenario. I think it could help some to better understand the approach and expectations. NWA wanted DOH and Delta had some whiz bang concept for the SLI. Both were shot down by the panel. The words " fair and equiteable" was the theme with status and ratio on the merger date as the back drop for arriving at a fair and equiteable solution for both groups. There was lots of arguments for a different date, but all attempted dates before the actual merger date were dismissed. It was also obvious, that the panel was not going to allow one pilot group a windfall at the expense of the other. I suspect we will be the same and fencing (as with Delta/NWA) will be a tool. All pilots, furloughed or not have career expectations...some more than others and that was obvious in the Delta/NW ruling. Lastly, after reading the arbitration ruling, this is totally out of our hands....So why sweat what we can't control.

[QUOTE=Slammer;1135291]I think the point is at the current pace, everybody will be back in time to cast a vote, and the guys at the bottom form a fairly solid voting bloc. (Even if just half return, it's still about 10% of the list, and that % will start growing everyday after Dec). Agree with your assessment, though, especially the don't sweat part. Otherwise, we'll all end up like ewrbasedflyer, and nobody wants that.

[QUOTE=Slammer;1135291]The furloughed pilots have a vote when they return. The sooner the better in my view.

I know many ponder with a fond eye the DAL/NWA SLI, but ALPA merger policy was changed afterwards and is:

1) Longevity
2) Career Expectations
3) Status and Category

[QUOTE=SpecialTracking;1135394]I not an expert on the policy but I do know that the policy simply states that the above three items need to be considered in the final ruling in no particular order and with no particular weight. Other factors can be considered and givin greater weight.

Everyone assumes that because this policy cme out after DAL/NWA that it means thre were problems associated other that SLI tht needed to be addressed. I think that the reality is that the DAL/NWA integration was considered a success and this new model reflects that.

With regard to longevity, it swings both way. While the bottom U pilots beat the C pilots if longevity is heavily weighted, the opposite is true at the top of the list. I don't believe that longevity is defined in the policy. I see longevity as more of an airline's longevity not an individual pilot's. For example, if JetBlue were to merge with AA, there would huge longevity discrepancy.

Hopefully we will get a contract soon and have a clearer picture of how the policy pays out.

In the meantime, chill out and try to enjoy the ride.

[QUOTE=SOTeric;1135233]
Quick question and I already know the answer to this one. Do furloughed pilots get to vote?

Concur & add another plea to STOP pounding on each other & playing into our adversary's hand. Everyone please read the last line quoted above.

Something a lot may have forgotten (or not know) is that just under 200 of the 1437 were voluntary furloughs. Some of these are '78 / '79 hires with seniority numbers below 100. I am also a vol furloughee, with 8 years seniority, plus my time on the street. All the vols had their reasons for taking the furlough out of sequence, mine was to complete my military time so I could retire and not have to continue in the reserves. As we come back, how should we get placed in the ISL? I am thinking that the 767 Capts think they have pretty high career expectations eventhough they were on the street as vol furloughees. In fact, I think all the furloughees had pretty high expectations until UAL right sized to make this merger happen. I know the panel will have the final say, so hopefully I, and the other vols, didn't shoot ourselves in the foot.