I agree with that statement.

I'd say DEN will be easily filled.

Actually I think ORD will be easily filled as well....even if by all UAL pilots from the bottom of the list. I cannot believe we will get to a situation for DEN and ORD where we have to volunteer for TDY or have involuntary assignments there. We have how many at the bottom of the CAL seniority list now who are furloughed L-UAL pilots? I would think that if not one CAL pilot bids the 140 positions available at these two bases that 140 UAL pilots at the bottom wouldn't get these positions if they put them on their bid choices.

I agree and luckily for this L-CAL bid there are no displacements anywhere, only vacancies or status quo. The problem we run into with our bids is that if we don't bid sufficient choices we can be assigned as the company needs dictate, which again, would be more of a problem in a displacement scenario.

I'll flat out say right now that I've updated my standing bid screen to show DEN/ORD CA and FO slots as my next to last choices...right above GUM CA/FO. Won't be an issue on this bid, but family obligations rules out GUM for many of us.

Absolutely true.

Any LCA's on this board care to respond?

Too many of the LCAs are on the "dark side".

What do you mean by the " dark side"?

You can't really be that clueless.

You have to ask what this means? Really?

Not clueless at all...It was a joke to continue the thought...Relax...

Let's be fair now. The LCA's aren't helping the company. They are instead out with the unwashed masses imparting their aviation wisdom saving the industry one grimy line pilot at a time.

Bitter? Nope.

Simple question:
Why are LCA's still volunteering their services?
Answer: Silence.

Simple question I asked 8 years ago:
What is my union doing to save my job?
Answer: Silence.

Welcome to United Airlines - Every man for himself.

A few simple questions for you UAL SUX:

1) Are you currently flying for someone?

2) IF you are, why don't you simply stop coming to work?

That's in essence what you are asking LCA to stop doing their job. They can just as soon stop giving line checks and training as you can stop showing up for your pairings. You want THEM to put THEIR collective jobs on the line? Does it state somewhere in the UAL contract that in the event of a furlough that LCAs don't have to conduct training anymore? If it doesn't, then what you are suggesting would be illegal job action and could get people in big trouble if suggested by someone with a leadership position.

Add in the fact that if one or two LCA decided to quit, 1 or 2 more would just step up and fill those positions. You're living in a fantasy world.

Actually its not a fantasy world, this has happened in the real world in the past. I had an opportunity to witness it. You see, being an LCA is something you volunteer to do. Each individual who is an LCA is one because they want to, and not because they have to. If that individual decides they don't want to be an LCA, they still get to come to work and be an airline pilot. During the summer of 2000 a large number of LCA's at UA made an individual personal decision that they no longer wanted to be LCA's. And someone was not right behind them to fill their shoes, because nobody really wanted to do anything special for the company, since the company didnt want to do anything for us. Nothing illegal about changing your mind. Only organized job actions are illegal. But you are right, in this case someone else will just step up and do it. CAL pilots don't have the same culture when it comes to not helping the company out. Someone is always willing to help here. It aint wrong, just different.

You don't understand how the LCA job at United works.

See iadfo's post above.

IMO during Section 6 it is .........

Hopefully we have that kind of unity on the UAL side currently but I think I may already know the answer to that one. :(

I know, I was being Kind.

OK...ya got me! :) I'm having a tough time relaxing after 10+ years on a bankruptcy contract.

Sure, perhaps if each individual pilot decided on their own as a LCA they no longer wanted the job, they could quit their LCA duties, but the union organizing such a thing would be illegal. I think you agree here.

If what you say happened back in 2000 is true, that's news to me. However since then, your union has received an injunction which has in essence cut themselves off at the knees. We're playing the game with both hands tied behind our backs.

Has UAL guys stopped picking up open time? No.

I know for sure that hasn't happened at CAL (It's considered a "right" here at CAL) and will never happen here without a huge change in culture. We basically need a clause in our contract like UPS that allows a union to ban open time during a furlough. We don't have that now. Have you talked to your reps to make sure that's in the new contract?

You dont get it, this was not an organized effort by the union. LCA's decided on their own cognisance without persuasion by a union to do this. Yes there are those that pick up time, they are ostracized by other pilots. The line has been drawn in the past when they were harassed for picking up open time. That is not the norm among pilots. Even while the airline is properly staffed and the pilots are under injunction, crew cancellations are not uncommon. Individual pilots just know to do the right thing without being told. Captain "marvin mainliner" just wont get a handshake when he flies with his next FO. When he gets to the hotel he can look forward to a slam click. That's the culture that grew from a pilot group that survived a strike, compared to what is normal at CAL.

hey!!........ ;)

That's two of us..............my take is a few B756/B777 pilots will downgrade to jump at this so they don't have to commute. We'll see!

When are the snapshots again and where can we find those results?

7th and 12th. Usually at flight ops site, in the ebulletin board.

What is the snapshot?

Basically it means the company will run a program for everyone's standing bid current as of Mar 7th. The product it produces is what you would hold if everyone kept their bid as of Mar 7th. This gives individuals an idea of what they could hold at what seniority. Hope this helps...if I miss spoke, someone please help me out, thanks!

So what exactly does starting 9/12 mean? Is that when they expect the base to open with all pilots trained and ready to go? Or does it mean training starts 9/12 to fill those slots. If they needed additional UAL furloughees to fill those slots, could one expect to be trained prior to that date? TIA!

Thanks WarEagle, where can you see it?

They'll post it on the FLT OPS E-Bulletin site sometime on 7 Mar.

This has got nothing to do with LUAL pilots. This all about LCAL. We might as well not even exist.

Bases are to be staffed to support ops in Sept, so Ual furloughed or off the street hires will need to be trained to fill vacancies. Just finished my annual MV/LOE and was told they expect to hire off the street based on the historical UA take rate and train throughout the summer, to cover vacancies. We'll see....but can't see how they can fill vacancies across the 737 without training this summer and hiring (as there are no reductions).

With the exception of the LUAL furloughed pilots that is true. Big thing is that LUAL comes out with bids closer to the time needed and training dates. With the 320 moving to IAH and EWR it will be a wash. LCAL guys are just yanking your chain. This is not a big expansion bid - just a catch-up and the likely winners are the LUAL guys that want to work at LCAL. The company is just moving a/c and people nothing more.

Thanks Slammer! That's what I was hoping to hear. We'll see what happens...

Slammer...we just got an update from our furlough coordinator that seemed to imply that there would be additional hiring beyond the April 17th class. The way I read it, seems like they might run more classes throughout the summer leading up to the opening of the new bases in Sept 2012. I emailed him back for clarification...have to wait and see what he says.



This just in...



The pre-summer training may overflow into May, but will not likely reach your seniority. They expect the Sept. 2012 slots to be filled by pilots already on the property

(that was from Chen)


followed by...

There will be additional hiring in the fall, but the slots in the new bases will be filled by re-balancing the pilots they have on property for the summer. As I understand it, September is the right time for this kind of re-arranging of manpower because of the seasonal reduction in manpower requirements following Labor Day. Manpower planning is very complicated, and the subject does not lend itself to easy description in newsletters!

Will LCAL pilots have their own Flight Ops at DEN and ORD or will they share the LUAL Flight Ops, and same with LUAL pilots in IAH? If so, are the LCAL planes now occupying gates close to LUAL Ops? Sorry if this is a dumb question, I've been out of the loop for awhile.

One of the furloughed UAL guys confirmed that a 1 May class with Charlie Venema. The class size is supposed to be smaller; ~12. The April class sizes are supposed to be 20.
It wouldn't surprise me if they went with 1-2 small classes/mo throughout the summer. This would be a slowdown but not complete shutdown of training.

Snapshot is out.

We're there enough takers to fill the new bases? How senior are they?

Yes. Denver went wayyy senior. Guam is way junior. Others were typical spread.

What sort of DOH was the junior captain and what base?

Preliminarily the DOH is 7/26/2005 in Guam.

What is the DOH of junior Capt in EWR and IAH. How about junior pilot DOH on EWR 757 and 777. Just curious.