CAL System Bid released
 

13-04
243 vacancies
35 737 crews to ORD & DEN starting 9/12
No SFO or 767 in LUAL domiciles

So with the 243 vacancies, how many will remain furloughed, and how far down the furlough list are they?

They've gone through about 1000 to get 240, so after all that roughly 1200 still on the list.

Can anyone find out where the specific vacancies are? I see they are opening DEN and ORD for now effective in September.

So there are 2200(ish) ? I thought there were 1437, or are there some voluntary guys that no one ever mentions?

Either way the number of planned retirements reflected and overall number
of positions is about as disappointing as I thought it would be, but at least we're not shrinking:cool:

OK so 1400 minus the 240 that took the CAL deal leaves 1200 still out
Gottcha

240 took jobs with LCAL so that leaves the remainder of the 1437, roughly 1200 on furlough. Just because they turned the job with CAL down doesn't mean they are off the list.

Hold on folks. Some in-accuracies here.

They have gone 1068 down the list of 1437 furloughees to get roughly 178 from the last bid. The bypass rate is 6 to 1 as of now. That leaves roughly 1259 people who have not accepted a new hire at this time.

If the bypass rate keeps as it is then clearly they will be down the list of 1437 in roughly 60 vacancies and unless there is a massive about face from those who have bypassed to call in and come back, they will have to hire off the street in the future.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW THE CLASS DATES? ARE THEY TRAINING THROUGH SUMMER?

Base/Equipment/Seat/Vacancies

CLE 737 CA 0 Vacancies
CLE 737 FO 0 Vacancies
DEN 737 CA 35 Vacancies
DEN 737 FO 35 Vacancies
NYC 737 CA 0 Vacancies
NYC 737 FO 0 Vacancies
IAH 737 CA 0 Vacancies
IAH 737 FO 0 Vacancies
GUM 737 CA 4 Vacancies
GUM 737 FO 9 Vacancies
LAX 737 CA 17 Vacancies
LAX 737 FO 16 Vacancies
ORD 737 CA 35 Vacancies
ORD 737 FO 35 Vacancies

NYC 756 CA 2 Vacancies
NYC 756 FO 12 Vacancies
IAH 756 CA 0 Vacancies
IAH 756 FO 5 Vacancies

NYC 777 CA 2 Vacancies
NYC 777 FO 0 Vacancies
IAH 777 CA 1 Vacancy
IAH 777 FO 2 Vacancies

IAH 787 CA 11 Vacancies
IAH 787 FO 22 Vacancies

243 total vacancies (107 CA + 136 FO) system wide

BESs with 0 vacancies indicate that the total number of pilots in that BES is not going to increase on this bid. However, actual bidding around the system could create a vacancy in these BESs based on pilots bidding out of that BES to another BES. (EX: A NYC 777 FO slot could be created if a NYC 777 FO bids and holds NYC 777 CA)

From the bid:

Bid Schedule:

Bid open for bidding effective March 1, 2012
Snapshot #1 expected to be posted to Flight Ops site Wednesday, March 7, 2012
Snapshot #2 expected to be posted to Flight Ops site Monday, March 12, 2012
Bid closes Thursday, March 15, 2012 at 1000CT

Thanks EWR, do you know the training dates or does the bid show that? I have never seen a CAL bid so forgive the ignorance if not.

So lets say they offer all furloughed folks slots and they have to hire off the street - what kind of recall rights do furloughed guys have? I seem to recall hearing about 10 year recall rights but not sure when the 10 years is counted from. I'm sure this has been discussed before but now it may be a reality.

Thankfully Age 65 is here, or at least this is showing the beginning of it.

As for the additional 737s that necessitate the vacancies, how long ago were they ordered? Were they ordered before the merger was announced?

All of our 737s were ordered or optioned before the merger was announced. There have been no new orders announced since the merger. I could not tell you how many options were converted since then, but to be honest I believe that at some point we also changed the delivery schedule to push back a few to later years and converted some orders to different 737 variants. I know they are also trying to accelerate the retirement of the -500s since they are gas guzzlers in favor of the NGs as they come online.

You are right regarding Age 65. Finally acknowledged in the bid text w/ 41 retirements. The next bid will see that number shoot up quite a bit if it is published in the normal July/August time frame.

Thanks. I was just curious how this was going to go for the SLI, but it sounds like it was CAL's plan to have all this growth long before the merger was announced.

LCAL bids don't include training dates.

Airplanes not on property on the date of merger announcement dont count in favor just like planes that have not been parked yet don't count against.

Any guesses on how junior 737 Ca will go, lol?

Any guesses on how many actual "new hires" this will create?

PBSG, you're mixing the fruits up into one basket. Recall rights only apply to being furloughed from, and recall to sUAL (legacy UAL), and has nothing to do with the sCAL side. The sCAL deal is a preferential job offer much like the deal furloughees have with regionals such as Skywest. The word "bypass" as used in the case of sCAL, describes a furloughee declining a job offer on the sCAL side. That furloughee must then wait 30 days after bypassing before resubmitting an interest in any future job opportunity (sUAL furloughee must initiate this request by contacting sCAL about their change of heart). They will then be placed in the next available training class ahead of any off the street hires. Note: They can only do this one time after their initial bypass, after which they lose that right to preferential hiring at sCAL.

Regarding "recall rights," or the right to be called back to sUAL, that extends 10 years from the date of furlough from sUAL.

Hope the mud filtered out...

I would guess late 99 hires? ;) Probably gonna be some mad dashes to the left seat.........

There are already 2005 hires in the left seat in Guam.

So can we borrow the expression from the S-UAL people and say we were 'right-sizing' for the merger by growing? :D

Thanks for the info. I figured I got that messed up somewhere.

Right sizing - not really just moving the pieces around for the company. All this will do is cause a few new bids for the 737 Capt at DEN and Ord, but most of the bids will be filled by lateral movement. Since no backfiling for the loses at IAH and EWR it is a wash.

Expect to see a 320 base in IAH and increase 320 flying out of EWR at about the same time, Sept 2012. Both of these will be 320 flying out of ORD and maybe some out of the West Coast(SFO/LAX). Again block hour ratio will remain the same no windfall. Could see 320 pilots moving into widebody slots(747/777) they can hold with an open bid.

They are not.

I think the right sizing comment is more in regards to 1437 pilots on the street because UAL said they could not make money with 94 paid off 737's in ORD & DEN.

March 1, 2012



The following document regarding the extension of the Transition & Process Agreement was prepared by the United MEC System Schedule Committee.



The provisions of paragraph 4-D in the Transition and Process Agreement (TPA) that were extended and/or changed are as follows:



A new UAL 320 and/or 767-57 IAH base may be opened. (Absent the extension, all domicile protections would have ended and the company could have opened a new base anywhere as per the current CBA).
· If these new categories are opened, they will be staffed on a voluntary basis only using the normal vacancy bid process. (This is all as per the current CBA).



· If unfilled vacancy bids exist in IAH after the bid is closed, no pilot can be forced to IAH (This provision is new and prevents the company from using the 8-K Displacements and 8-F Insufficient Bidders provisions of the CBA to fill these IAH unfilled slots until a JCBA has been ratified).



· TDY will be used to man any unfilled IAH slots. (This will be done using current contractual provisions with modifications that allow for bidding voluntary TDY in 3, 2 or 1 month blocks in duration until a JCBA has been ratified).



A new UAL 320 and/or 767-57 IAH base may be opened. (Absent the extension 767-57, on a voluntary basis only. (This would all be done under the current CAL CBA except the similar changes to TDY called Special Assignments)


A new UAL 320 and/or 767-57 IAH base may be opened. (Absent the extension, there would be no protections for UAL LAX as result of the existence of the CAL LAX 737 base).


Questions & Answers



The following Q&A provides more information and detail about the application of the provisions of the TPA Extension LOA.



1. Is the company going to open all these bases?



At this time the company is planning to open only 3 new categories: UAL IAH 320 with about 50 crews (50 Captains, 50 First Officers) and CAL ORD and DEN 737 and with about 35 crews each, all in September 2012.



2. What will be the process for opening bases and when will we see vacancy bids

for IAH 320?



Both subsidiaries will follow the provisions of their existing contracts for vacancy bidding. For CAL, this means they will see their new equipment bids since they do a bi-annual system bid which deals with all known manpower needs looking forward for a year.



The UAL contract is very different, starting with the requirement for the company to follow the provisions of LOA 94-07 (Allocation of Flying). This requires a Notice of Proposed Decision Making (NPDM) which is an interactive process between the company’s Manpower Planning Department and the SSC. This process is already underway and is scheduled to be finalized on April 18.



Due to the nature and provisions of the UAL contract, vacancy bids are issued much closer to the time when pilots will be needed on the line and the bids can be issued in smaller numbers that are specifically timed. This will most likely result in at least two bids to fill the planned need for IAH 320 this fall. The first bid should be issued in May for September with another bid coming in June for October/November.



3. What are the provisions for opening new UAL equipment domicile?



Current contractual provisions for new equipment domiciles will apply. Pilots with freezes will be eligible to bid for vacancies with advertised effective dates that are within six months of the advertised base opening date. Also, pilots can bid conditionally based on their position in the new base. Based on past practice, pilots should be able to bid based on their desire to be in the top 1/3rd or the top 2/3rd of the base based on his or her seniority in the new category at the specific time of their bid.



4. What is the same about this TDY that is currently in the CBA language?



All current provisions, including the availability of hotel rooms, per diem and travel passes will apply. Pilots will bid for the TDY assignment prior to PBS bidding. All pilots awarded a TDY assignment will bid in the TDY category using PBS based on their seniority within the category.



The company determines the domiciles the TDYs will come from based on manpower.



5. What is the difference between this TDY and the current CBA language?



There will be no partial month TDY. Voluntary TDY may be bid for in 3,2 or 1month blocks (with the higher number of months bid getting priority over lower).



Involuntary TDY, if it occurs, will only be for a one-month block, and no pilot will be required to sit more than two involuntary TDY blocks in any 12-month period and no involuntary TDY will be assigned until all volunteers have been exhausted (regardless of number of months of availability).



6. Can I be displaced out of my domicile because of the new CAL bases?



No. The only displacements that would be involved would be based on normal causes from within the UAL system due to the need to balance between existing UAL domiciles (not IAH) or large seat imbalances. This is highly unlikely due to the uncertainty of where displaced pilots will bump to and the costs involved. What is likely to happen is that flying (block hours) will be moved to where the pilots actually are based and/or remain. Pilots may see different destinations and types of flying.



7. Why are LAX’s protections different than the protections for other bases?



LAX had specific protections due to the opening of the CAL 737 in LAX in the original TPA and these will continue. Also, they face the only direct threat to a very specific type of flying (the Hawaiian flying) that will be flown by the CAL 737s in LAX. The LAX protections ensure their headcount will not be reduced due to the CAL LAX 737. It can be reduced due to voluntary attrition.



8. How can CAL grow flying with these new domiciles while UAL shrinks? Isn’t

that a violation of the ratio protection?



This flying isn’t new flying; it’s a change in which pilots do the flying for each subsidiary. Flying in any of the new domiciles/bases will come from somewhere else. So, if United were to reduce the type of flying in a domicile in response to new CAL flying, United would increase flying there or elsewhere depending on where the pilots are. The total amount of flying does not shift between airline subsidiaries. The ratio protection will still apply and is being actively tracked.



All of CAL’s previously ordered new aircraft for 2012 and 2013 are planned as replacements for aircraft being removed from subsidiary CAL service on a year over year basis.

With the increased class sizes and the additional classes inApril, there will be roughly 240 LUAL guys/gals on property (minus those who've left) before classes resume in fall.

Houston and Newark. I can hardly wait. I was really hoping for some of that Cleveland flying.

You can have all the ORD flying you want.....;)

Do you know the second para from an announced bid or something?

What part do you question? I think most has been discussed/posted on this forum before. I'll try to find the reference(it's here). The part of the WB bidding is conjecture. UAL bids closer to training date than CAL. I think all this is supposed to happen in Sept of this year.

Chicago isn't what I want however I'll take a Chicago winter before a Houston summer any day.

Regarding bids I suspect the SCal bids in DEN will go very senior while the SUAL bids in IAH will go relatively junior. I think the TDY A320 IAH flying will go senior.

It would be better if nobody(CAL/UAL) took any of these bids and let the company pay to move/house people for a TDY operation. Greed probably won't allow that. We should do what the MEC wouldn't do. Make the company give us a JCBA through our actions.

Not me. No thanks on the Chicago winter.

I think you're wrong about IAH going junior, but we'll see. There are a lot of guys I'm guessing at UA that live in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin tht I'm sure will love to bid closer to home.

We both know there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of that happening. Just look at all the open time still being picked up at both companies.

However, picking a base has nothing to do with greed. If someone can stop commuting or move closer to home with the addition of these doniciles, that is good. That's one of our goals in a JCBA right, to increase our collective QOL.

We may be getting carrots right now, but without a JCBA, QOL will be determined by the company and the stick they'll hit us with. All side deals have to stop. It's been almost 2 years now and no real progress on a JCBA. What do you think, is that Ok?

The LCAs should stop VOLUNTEERING to do IOE work until the JCBA is reached. The doesn't violate the court order or the RLA for that matter. This place will grind to a halt

Maybe that's the problem.

UAL pilots are still getting Carats ( a unit of weight in gemstones )

and Cal Pilots are getting Carrots (the nutritious, orange to yellow root of this plant, eaten raw or cooked or something hoped for or promised as a lure or incentive )

Not so much growth as aircraft replacements. Management has been clear that most of these new 737s are being used to replace the -500s. The net change in total 737s is certainly nothing drastic if any.