Former calex are doomed
 

Former CALEX pilots now working at CAL, are terrified. They know the huge UAL Seniority Integration Steamroller is right around the corner. Because of this, they will support the rat Jay Pierce no matter what. He gives them a sense of security.

This member fully supports ALPA and our seniority system. UAL pilots support ALPA and the seniority system. Where as, many former CALEX pilots do not support ALPA but support the small clique of their junior pilots who have seized our union. Many former CALEX pilots do not respect our seniority system and in fact attempt to undermine the rest of us at every opportunity.

Those who now control our union are supporting policies that undermine our seniority system. PBS is the principle violator. Our work rules do not respect seniority. Management is now cross training pilots to work either cockpit seat. This is probably the most aggregious threat to seniority and is a direct threat to junior pilots. Our union says and does nothing. In fact, J.P. and Dave Owens have helped do these things to us. Their punishment is being promoted to higher and higher union positions.

Former CALEX pilots have been causing trouble since coming to work here. Several were so arrogant and belligerent they were terminated during initial training. Today, they are causing incredible conflict problems within our cockpit. Since hiring CALEX pilots there have been more cockpit conflict since the infamous CAL Strike. Professional Standards has been forced to hire more case workers. They are so innundated with investigations that it takes them weeks sometimes months to finalize.

CAL union leaders are angering the UAL MEC by undermining the negotiation process.

The point being is that former CALEX pilots and those who have seized our union, are antagonistic and causing much trouble. This arrogance stems from ignorance and a sense of entitlement. They respect no one and prioritize their needs over the rest of us.

There is no hope for this group of pilots. They are immature, arrogant and extremely nasty bunch. Just read most of their posts. They have an innate hatred of anyone who dare oppose them. It's their way or no way.

Their immature rants will be short lived. As I said, the UAL Seniority Juggernaut is bearing down on them and it is only a matter of time former CALEX pilots will come to grips with reality.

This senior pilot has long tried to talk common sense with many of our junior pilots. When one on one, they can be reasoned with. It is only when they bunch together (I.E., chat rooms, etc) do they raise their ugly head.

In conclusion, the former CALEX pilot has no ally's. They have managed to anger all around them and in the process have isolated themselves into a relatively small group who refuse any outside thought. Most of our senior pilots cannot stand working with them. They have also managed to anger UAL MEC and their pilots. In real terms it's about 1,000 former CALEX pilots v about 11,000 ALPA strong. The most junior pilots of the bunch are CALEX and they actually think they are going to some how wrestle super seniorty. Merger Committee Chairman CA Jim Bruscia is a senior pilot with a chip on his shoulder. He thinks that his PEX pilots got screwed 20+ years ago. His job is to negotiate seniority integration for all pilots and not just a select few. He is not about to give away seniority rights for senior pilots or create conflict with UAL pilots unecessarily by demanding super seniority for a bunch of prima donna former CALEX types. It aint gonna happen.

That is why former CALEX pilots are propping up J.P. and his union thugs. They are purposlely dragging out the contract negotiation process to stall SSL talks. In the meantime, J.P. and his junior varsity players are enjoying pay, perks and time off most senior pilots do not get. This is another way they are insidiously undermining seniority.

Make no mistake about it, J.P. will scurry away with some management job or promoted within ALPA. In the meantime, those who have been propping him up will be stapled to the bottom of a 12,000 pilot seniority list. Somebody has to be there. Who in the hell do you think it will be -- A 15 year UAL pilot? Dream On.

This senior pilot respects seniority and not demands of entitlement. UAL pilots respect seniority and not demands of entitlement. ALPA supports seniority. The AFL-CIO respects seniority. An abritrator respects seniority. The only player here not respecting seniority are a select few former CALEX types.

You know the old saying "You cut your nose off to spite your face?"

As a senior pilot opinion, Jay Pierce is doing a good job. He is creating anger and distrust among ALL pilots. This will ensure that he and his thugs will be booted out and UAL will eventually run our union. Mature, seasoned, hard line ALPA union representatives who honor seniority will soon be running our union. CALEX will be where they belong. At the bottom of the pile.

You did these things to yourself. We tried to warn you but you think that you know everything. You just don't know what you don't know.

LOL.

Wow! Give a guy a drum...

When the seniority integration is over, you may be playing a plastic drum on some Seattle street corner.

This guy takes the time to write several paragraphs and all you have is one line of child speak! If you are not going to engage or at least address the post, why post at all? It gets tiring and you leech on the work of others.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank you for being open minded. I am not thanking you for agreeing with me because you have not done such thing. You have only asked others to engage with the subject matter rather than make stupid snide remarks. The funny thing is that the Administrator thinks those nasty snide remarks are "Insightful" and "Encouraging" and spends much time telling me that I am too controversial. I did not come here to make friends. I came here to share severe problems that we are having with our union leadership. This is a crucial time for my pilot group (CAL) and what these goons do will affect our career and life. This is extremely serious business. We are integrating a 12,000 pilot work force and the stakes are incredibly high. Mr. Pierce and his gang are out smarted, out qualified and out numbered. Their fooling around is making a mockery of our pilots and posing a great threat to our career.

These stupid one line remarks about me are mostly ignored. Their remarks clearly indicate they are intellectually vacant. I have no mercy for stupidity. Apparently the Administrator does. I expect reaction to this thread will have me booted from this site by day's end.

Again, thanks for your support.

If I understand what your saying. And that's a big IF. The Calex pilots represent the most junior pilots on the list. (not true by the way). These pilots control the union. The union has placed Brucia in charge of the merger committee. Brucia is planning to sell out the junior pilots. The junior pilots think they can tame Brucia through JP.

Hmm, since they already control the union and JP why don't they just fire Brucia?

Sir, I did not say any of the things that you mentioned. The most junior pilots on the CAL pilot list are former CALEX. I'm not considering the furloughed UAL pilots because we don't know how many are going to return back to UAL. I'm speaking about CAL's junior pilots who are greatly influencing our union.

I did not say CA Jim Bruscia will "sell out" our junior pilots. You are totally missing the point. CA Bruscia must negotiate seniority matters for ALL pilots. What I said is that he is not going to make deals giving super seniority for CALEX pilots at the expense of 3800 other CAL pilots. Former CALEX pilots actully think they are going to get super seniority over 15 year UAL pilots. They are convinced of this. Where they got this stupid idea, I do not know.

I do not like to deal with rumor but rumor is that Pierce's lap dogs (Mostly EWR LEC) are maneuvering to kick out all influential union officials who are senior pilots. Jim Bruscia and Dave Ernest top that list. There is a concerted effort to lock out senior pilots. Dave Ernest, Jim Bruscia, Tom Howard, Terry Adams, Pat Burke are a short list of extremely well qualified honorable men who should be running our union. I gaurantee you, that JP and the MEC will lock them out. Make no mistake about it, this is a former CALEX run show. They have the power and they are not going to let it go even if it hurts 4800 pilots career.

I asked this question on the UAL forum and either nobody knew the answer or everyone ignored it. What Date of Hire is shown on CAL's Master Seniority list for the Calex flow throughs? Was it the day they started at Calex or was it the day they started at CAL?

I know back when the merger was announced and the UAL ALPA people were exchanging seniority list info with CAL's ALPA people, they weren't being given a straight answer over some of the issues dealing with absences and longevity dates.

The answer is it doesn't matter. Whenever the three arbitrator panel decides the pilot and aircraft "snapshots" should have been taken they will determine how many mainline pilots were required to fly the fleets at each airline, and from the demographics of the groups and the flying and compensation they brought to the merger they will determine how to merge those pilot jobs. Ancillary issues that can be proven with solid evidence will affect things on the margin but once the arbitrators decide how to merge those slots from each airline they will then fill in those UAL/CAL slots starting with the pilots from the top of both lists.

Also, no matter how much we debate our arguments on APC will have zero effect on the outcome.

For most flow through's, their date of hire is the date that they transitioned to CAL. There are some pilots that were offered deferrals due to short staffing at CalEx. Those pilots retained the date of hire based on the class they would have started in but did not transition until later.

I don't know about the Bar Harbor or Rocky guys. They had different deals.

No doubt as a savant you find this merger process to be a very frustrating experience. If only everyone else could see what you and your sidekick see, then everyone would rally behind you in Pied Piper fashion. Unfortunately for you two your attempts at connecting the dots fall short of any logical conclusion. And the more you rant the less supporters you find.

Are you two still slickties, lol?

The one time you try to lay down a fact, you get it wrong. All credibility in shot at this point.

This is a superb question.

Some CALEX Flow Thru pilots are given two seniority dates. One for date of hire at CAL and the other original hire date for pass privileges, etc. Their date of hire at CAL (Not CALEX) is all that matters for seniority integration.

This brings up other issues. There are many former CALEX pilots who think they are entitled to their CALEX hire date for pilot seniority issues. Some think that if it wasn't for CALEX, CAL would have gone out of business. In fact, F/O Corey Franke submitted a report / demand to CAL management stating that his group of pilots (CALEX) are better qualified, better educated and have better flying skills than established CAL pilots. Because of this, he made demands their pilots are placed into immediate positions of authority (I.E., CPO, Training Dept. etc.). He also advocated policy to get rid of many senior pilots as possible. It is not clear if management has officially gone along with the "Franke Report" but almost all of his demands have been met.

I will refrain from giving my opinion about these things. You make up your own mind.

That's not quite right. Some CALEX Flow Thru pilots received l-o-n-g-e-v-i-t-y dates for the purposes of benefits depending upon their particular deal. There is only one date for seniority purposes at the mainline carrier.

Now we're getting somewhere. Anonymous bulletin boards have a tendency to be "slum-dwelling" to begin with. This can't hurt.

I will. Thanks.

You just do what you said you were going to do in the second quote.;)

I may not agree with TruthHurts on anything, but one thing I believe in is his ability to present a question and argue his position. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be posting. Does it make you feel good calling somebody a slicktie? I've got more time in Union Airlines than you do past diapers. You are not that important!

So, do you think the "Franke Report" is correct? He states that his group of pilots (CALEX) are better educated, better qualified and have better flying skills than established CAL pilots. Do you think this is true?

Too funny!

Not true. At best maybe, MAYBE 30%. The flow through ending in early 2006. The bottom 1,000 of the list (even without the UA pilots) was hired after the flow through ended. And if you want to talk about flow through, certainly you must be aware that the ratio was 1 for 3. You are aware of that, aren't you?

Wow, we actually agree on something!

I'm glad that you agree. That's why I am here to help you.

Thank you! What years did the PFT start and end at CalEx? I know it was PFT in 96-97 but didn't it end shortly after that?

Cal's never had PFT. If you are talking about CalEx, I have no idea.

I'll take your bizarre redirection to mean that the answer is, "No" you do not know the makeup of the seniority list at CAL.

Old CAL. TY. I stand corrected. I said "Two seniority dates" when the correct response was "Seniority / Longevity."

Why are you bringing this up with all that we have going on? If you are trying to make a suttle point about many Coex guys being prostitutes then you better look at the UAL hiring ranks from '96-'00. Plenty of PFT er's in that group. Btw I didn't.

That's because you don't realize how many errors there are in his posts. That's not a slam on you, you can't be expected to have access to the information the CAL pilots do, but his stories are easily dismantled.

Hired at ual in 10/07. After the panel gets done with it i feel pretty cconfident i go above anyone from cal near my date based on career projections. Book it!
Truth hurts brings up some valid points.
Seniority brought over from calex. Freaking hilarious! Never gonna happen!
Guess those people are still calling it a merger

book it? Oh my. What's this, a UGA football thread? Book it we're winning the national championship this year!? Every year I hear this. :rolleyes:

First, I'll admit. I'm just an outsider. I saw CALEX and got mildly interested although the term is really Coex.

But as to this "Franke (SP?) Report", well, I can agree with that. :D

I read the original post and got bored with it. I didn't see a question presented, I saw a grenade thrown followed by a flame thrower.

Okay, I did see two questions: There's your answer Truthbetold.

But if I'm not mistaken the guys that were a part of this deal were early to mid 1990s guys at Coex and then we're held back. The date they'd originally flowed to CAL was their seniority date. There were some deals worked out on how that worked but no they weren't using their Coex hire dates.

BTW, the one guy I know who did this was a 94 hire Coex hire, I believe he did the pref interview and was ahead of some at Coex who failed the pref interview but flowed anyways. He was held back but eventually went to CAL. He was senior enough to be a EWR 767 A before going EWR 777 B recently.

I don't think the guys held back (unless they did it in the 2000s again) are junior in any way shape or form.

I do not believe anybody in their right mind can operate with two seniority dates when it comes to bidding. That's nonsensical.

Hope it works for you. Will you hold a grude and threaten to sue if you dont?

No, that's not how it works. It will be category and class, and throw in relative seniority + or - a couple current seniority percentages. Look at the closest merger to your size, DL/NW. Look at that REALLY close. That's the way it goes. Fence the 744s for UAL guys and 787s for CAL guys for 5 years and there you have it. Nailed it.

I'm a flow through, and don't expect any type of seniority windfall. I have my issues with ALPA, but more so with mgt. That being said "truthhurts" is a very angry person.

This entire thread is bulls#!t !
You assume that everyone hired in 05 and beyond is from Express.
That they're all just young kids with no experience, unlike the "brain surgeons"at UAL.

My early 05 class had 4 Express guys, 4 military (one C5 I think) The rest of us had plenty of previous airline experience. (10,000 hours and 4 type ratings for one example)

Remember, UAL hired plenty of 300 hour (+ a vajayjay) wonders all through the 90's. I personally flew with 6 or 8 gals (and interns) who had a lot left to learn in the right seat of a commuter, but 4 months later they were gone to UAL with NO PIC.

So that person deserves to go ahead of someone at CAL just because they got hired at UAL first? Sorry , ain't gonna happen.

I was hired at CAL in '05 not Express. 8000 hours of flight time. A good friend of mine was hired in '05 and not Express. My friend could of held Guam captain on the last bid.

and that is the truth sorry if it hurts.

Don't worry, it will be relative plus or minus a couple percentage points from your current seniority. They will fence the 744 and 787 for 5 years, and that will be it. Look at DL/NW for answers.

IIRC, early 2006 was the LAST of the P.I.G.S., NOT flow ups/"Shindler's List', they finished up in 2005. I flew with one that went at that time. With the LAST 4 going in March 2006. I flew with them as well. One in 2005 before they (the last 4) had dates, and the 2 others were on their last few trip at XJT. The 4th was hired directly into the training department and had a slightly offset CALEX hire date from the other 3 but was still in the last of the P.I.G. category.

Again, that's if IIRC. But looking at a CAL seniority list it seems to be as I remember.

The answer is that it doesn't matter. Our seniority list can't be reordered and your seniority list can't be reordered. I cannot end up being more senior to someone who is already senior to me. The fact is people were hired here at the company (on both sides) under different terms that existed at the time between companies. I am not going to begrudge anyone who was hired under the terms that were agreed to between all parties back then. I have no problems with the seniority list, save the huge group of opportunists who occupy a place on it currently.

That's funny, because other than a hundred and fifty or so furloughs, everyone on property at pmCO has been working since around that hire date (actually Nov 07 hires). Not likely to happen if you are truly a 10/07 hire at UAL. That "longevity" thing in the merger process. I do realize we all want the best outcome.

Thanks, forgot about the Pref Interview group. They were still hired at a 1/3 ratio. I believe the Schindler's list group (114) was all brought over as a group. Whatever the case, when Truth states that the majority of the junior pilots are for COEX, he very much wrong.

What does IIRC mean?

Here here...
Nov 07 hire, ex Waterskier.. in my class of 16, we had 4 mil (myself included as a C-5 FE), a handful of Regional guys, a couple of 135 guys and I believe one or two Coex.

Yes, there are many "G" numbers (and others) who are ex Coex/flow through's but they do not make up the entire bottom of the CAL list..

Unfortunately there are a handful of pilots on both side, that have some hatred of all things ALPA (my opinion) and spew their "thoughts" of history and facts. Every now and then, they do bring up a valid point.. but it's usually lost in rants that they post.

Again, the bottom of the CAL List is not all Coex.. and, the few G numbers I've spoken with, none of them are expecting "super seniority" nor do they have a undying love for JP. (They don't hate him either.. just indifferent).

It is what it is~
Fly Safe, Fly the Contract
Motch

PS> Hope I can write "that".. just got banned from another Forum for writing "Fly The Contract"! lol

fwiw, evidently the kids these days use the term "BOOK IT!"

:D