Howgozit?
 

Just wondering what the "new hies" (furloughed UAL) at CAL think?
Also, any news on more upcoming classes?

Hmmmm.....I think I'll grab some extra popcorn for this!
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A..._Wpop47MIxk_iw

Ok, I'll bite. It sucks..... being on reserve after all these years is one thing, but, being on reserve under these work rules is absolutely brutal. It is as bad as bad gets...... I have been raped by the crew desk repeatedly. Had to call in fatigued. Ready to quit, and wait for the UAL recall. Seriously? This is what the airline industry has become? OMG. I wish I would have loved something other than flying airplanes.
And now, I am too old to get into porn. Dammitt!
Seriously.... we all need to join forces and get a real contract. No mercy. Just vote no/say no (to junior manning & f'd up assignments) until management realizes they can't operate without us. Man up! You know you are all tired of this shizzle.

FurloughedX2--thanks for waiving me off the CAL job for another 6 months (no sarcasm here). I've loosely considered it but think I'll wait out a JCBA or UAL recall.

Hang in there.

No offense to the CAL side, but most have not worked under a good contract. One positive out of our furloughees flying with CAL is the ability to constructively educate them on what a real contract is/was like.

Don't accept small advancements on CAL' s work rules, but demand Ual's +. Equally important, is the reigning in of scope.

Yes. I always appreciate "constructive criticism" from new hires. Always goes over really big. That said, if we insist on nothing less than L-CAL scope and L-UAL + work rules, we're off to a pretty good start. I've heard they're negotiating UAL 90-seat pay rates. No word about 70-seat, but it doesn't bode well...

Constructive criticism isn't welcome from new hires? What a load of crap. Just because a guy is new to the operation doesn't mean that he can't offer insight and hasn't worked for a better operation WRT to work rules and scheduling etc. That "new hire" probably has at least 10 years in 121 ops and maybe more.

I suppose his "new hire" opinion and inputs aren't welcome for stuff like safety or line ops either??

I have a buddy at CAL. He came from a defunct 121 op where he was flying 57s. prior to that he was a commuter driver. His opinion when he got there? "Mesa with bigger jets"

Instead of bashing guys why the don't we all agree that OUR contract sucks and YOUR contract sucks and make sure that we need to do everything possible to ensure that we get an industry leading one this time?

Lol, I was thinking the same thing. The Harvard types of the airline industry love to talk the talk. Walking the walk is quite another thing.

Harvard.....Didn't someone Jack-Wagon named "Jeff" also attend there??

Current CBA's suck???
Understatement of the week.

Yes, brain surgeons and narcissists. We are sooo lucky to receive their constructive criticism.

Interesting. Don't want to take new hire input. Very shallow thought process for somebody that's supposed to be a captain.

Many FOs have more experience and knowledge than you. It's all about accessing all knowledge available to create the safest flight possible.

UAL trains everybody as Capt, actual Capt has Capt authority but realizes the guy in the right seat is a valuable asset.

But your right. Haven't seen that here at CAL. More of a commuter operation verses a mature operation.

LMAO, your pontificating from a position of ignorance seems consistent with brain surgeon arrogance. Thanks for reinforcing my point.

Actually, you're post just illustrates his point. Blockoutblockin on the no pair list by 90% of the f/o's I'm guessing. Shame we can't institute OLQ (officer like quality) in the airlines like they did at AOCS.

Hang in there dude .. L-UAL will start recalling in September and then you can come work for a real airline.

Agreed, but I would like to put an emphasis on the "+" for UAL work rules. Our rules are Ch 11 rules for the most part, and HUGELY concessionary compared to what we once had. Hopefully there will be improvements

I can't believe anyone would come on this forum and defend CAL's work rules or treatment of pilots. Coming from the Air Force I didn't understand work rules, but I do now. The military has better rules for fighting fatigue in a combat zone than CAL has for flying passengers around. I'm also tired of UAL pilots coming on here and making generalizations of CAL pilots. Most of the CAL pilots I have flown with are sick and tired of the crap going on at CAL and want a change for the better. This bickering back and forth does jack s%$t for our end goal. We both worked under crappy contracts at different companies, now we work under crappy contracts for the same company. We should all have one common enemy, and one common goal.

Many of the guys/gals who took the furloughed pilot jobs at CAL have more 121 experience than some of the CAL Captains they are flying with. Wouldn't it be wise to at least listen to what they say? After all, they have experience living under both contracts, something you and I do not have. In that regard, that makes them subject matter experts.

Yeah.............the REAL airline that took your pensions, gave a lot of flying
to RJ's, parked all your B737 and furloughed over 1400 pilots, has several over 80 year old FA's (and planes from the looks of it), and an EX CEO that gets over $600,000 a year in pay to not even work there anymore! You mean THAT REAL AIRLINE? I'd rather be at CAL to be perfectly honest. When GB and GB were here, it was the place to be. Unfortunately, that has gone down hill RAPIDLY under new management, and with the introduction of our new dance partner, it's gotten even worse. Sorry............even turned down DAL to come here as did several other guys I know. Now it's not looking like such a great decision, but it's one I'll live with for a few more years......:o Oh, and the couple of UAL guys I've flown with have been great guys to fly with and other than crappy schedules, are HAPPY to be back flying again.

I have flown with half a dozen of our furloughed UA brethren in the past couple months and they have all been great aviators that are keenly aware of the respective drawbacks of each CBA, and are extremely focused on achieving nothing but an industry leading contract. Good conversations and camaraderie. Now, I'm not sure what they say about me after the trip (I.d.) is over, though..

I too have had the same experience and I'm sure they are sincere. This message board is what it is.

I've started to guestion your decision making at this point. I don't think I've ever known anybody to take CAL over DAL. Not logical! Sorry, CAL was never a top tier airline even with GB there, but you keep spinning it.

I can't agree more. It's kind of like UAL post 9/11. This is my last post I'm done with forums.

This is odd. Every time I see a L-UAL recall, I always make the effort to say "hi", introduce myself, extend a welcome and generally get a feel for the elephant in the living room question, "How's it going?". I haven't heard anything like this thread reads from the pilots I have talked with. Most are quick to point out the good thing - that they are being paid at longevity. Are UAL pilots just intimidated to be honest? or have I just met the happy people in my random and totally unscientific sampleing?

At the time I was offered a job I was going to start at CAL in two weeks and DAL said it would be a year to a year and a half to get a classdate there. Also, my wife wanted to work where I did and DAL had nepotism so it was a no go there too. CAL hired her in a heartbeat so we both were able to be employed at the same company. So question all you want, but without all the information your post is pretty braindead and closedminded. I knew other pilots that did the same as I. As far as CAL being a top tier? UAL has been a total bust for the last 15-20 years and everyone except a few on here knows that. About the only award you've excelled at getting is for being at the top of the WORST list year after year. Too bad we're being dragged down to that level with you now. One of the recent L-UAL guys I just flew with told me he thinks most of the UAL employees are still stuck in the heydays of the 80's............it's a much different world now and he was happy to have a job flying nice CLEAN, NEW, airplanes and flying with much younger crews. Anyways, I'll let you guys stay in your little fantasy world about how great things are over there. Everyone else sees it quite differently.......................:rolleyes:

I wouldn't think so! Maybe they think you're fishing for a compliment and they know you had nothing to do with them being there and making higher UAL pay for the position - OR - They just don't trust you. Either case, I'm guessing they don't care what you think and I'm sure they're not intimidated by you.

Buh-bye!!!! :p

The "wisdom" seen on these "whose airline is worse" threads is spectacular. Can't we just agree they're both lousy and press on?

My original comments will do - even with your excuses it doesn't float. Did DAL really offer you a job with a class date a year to a year and a half down the road. Don't tell stories now!:rolleyes: To many guys on the forum know how it works. You said enough for me not to respond - Fire away -I'm Done!

Exactly. My comments on "new hires" were only in response to a suggestion that CAL pilots needed returning furloughees to "educate" us on getting a real contract. We don't need "educating" from furloughees or anyone else. We're keenly aware our work rules suck. We're also aware L-UAL's scope sucks. Collectively we need to change these things, but of course my comments emphasizing this were ignored and, instead the last two pages pages of this thread focused indignation on some non-existent, perceived slight against furloughees and sparked more spectacularly stupid debate on whose airline sucks the least. Face it folks, we both suck. Neither pilot group should feel anything but a sense of collective shame for allowing the state of our careers to sink so low. Certainly, no one here has anything to brag about. Not having personally experienced UAL history, I wouldn't dream of "educating" a UAL pilot on unionism. As a CAL pilot, I certainly don't expect, or accept it from UAL.

See my previous post. This is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to when I said no one here has room to brag. And for the record, I had a class date at Delta that overlapped my class date at CAL. Never regretted my decision to stay at CAL until this merger reared it's head.

I'm guessing you're just fantasizing right now .. like, wow, I'm a real airline pilot, not some shill working for a third tier airline like CAL. I'm guessing that FEDEX and UPS were nipping at your heels to come interview too :). Go back to your helicopters , this job is for real aviators ;) You got hired by a regional/commuter that aspires (and fails) to be a world class airline. Have another GB cheeseburger.

Stop fooling yourself, Biff. UAL is sitting on that third tier right next to CAL and has been for quite some time.

Remember
 

Just Vote NO.

For some reason or another those at L-UAL THINK they've got it all figured out and that their old, decrepid, dried up airline IS the cat's meow (it WAS in the 60's). They're wrong. I know of SEVERAL guys at CAL that turned down DAL, and I agree 100% like you that my decision was just fine until recently.

You can believe whatever you'd like. I don't need to explain anything to you and my decision to come to CAL was the best decision I've made until the merger was announced. Sorry, didn't want to work for UAL and still don't. As a matter of fact, UAL wasn't even on my radar for a job......................:eek: Oh, and YES, DAL did offer me job, but I didn't accept............same with the Navy.............USAF worked better for me.

Excellent post. I'm still in training but have had more than a couple of conversations with LCAL line pilots. LCAL pilots know that the concessionary contract they work under is a POS in terms of work rules.

Welcome aboard Andy. Where are you going to be based and on what equipment? Hope you have good experiences here...............and yes, we're ALL in this crappy contract together! Hopefully something GOOD will come out of it soon. Dinner on me if we fly together!

Are you afraid of conversation? Yes LUAL pilots are new to LCAL, but they offer a wealth of experience and information. Would you recognize UAL, UAL+, UAL++(C2000), or view CAL+ as a gain?

Regarding, constructive criticism, I hope that's not how LCAL operates. Whether a half wing or a 400 Captain, everyone brings a different perspective. While discussion has never caused an accident, lack of discussion is another topic.

I spoke to a friend last night that was new to the CAL side. He was in the early January class and he lives close to EWR. He said last month was 113 credit hours. I didn't get the exact breakdown of how much was block time versus deadhead...but he said he was exhausted. If it wasn't for the fact that he didn't have to commute, he said he probably wouldn't have been able to take it. Things are only going to get worse over the summer.