At issue is....
04-30-2012 | 11:26 AM
#21
Banned
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From: 756 Left Side
Interesting reading.
Guess saying "See, we're all screwed up- it's Jay P's fault (and not the company).. Delta's is already close to a deal!" might not be the prudent thing to point at.
Long time lurker/occasional poster, but I can't not share this one. Let me say right up front that this is 3rd hand so please don't shoot the messenger!
OK, here goes:
Jumpseater with us today claims to have ties to a CPO and was told by his buddy in the CPO that we should see a TA on 18 May. Supposedly the MEC will see it on the 15th, and to us on the 18th. Details include 20% increase to the rates with "COLA" type increases per year later. 717s are in the deal and supposedly via a lease from Boeing after turn in from SWA. SWA pays some penalties etc but we get "new" leases from Boeing. Company will offer 500 early outs, and hiring will begin quickly. 50 seaters reduced to around 125 total. Now for the bad news: Supposedly company wants 90 seaters with some type of production balance. Also they want increased Code share with Alaska. The reason he claims the company wants a deal done quickly has to do with the loan for the refinery.
Again, please don't shoot the messenger. There is no way I can confirm any of this...it is just the rumor I heard today with a lot of details and a firm date (supposedly). I guess we will know soon.
Ready for incoming...Philly
So.. would that deal be acceptable here? Cause to me, it's a NO Vote.
Mind you, a 20% increase off of $114 for a Delta 757/767 driver would be $136 an hour, for me (756, 5hyr pay as of 1 Jan 2012 I'm getting $95! The most junior guy on the UAL list on the 757/767 is getting $109!)
So, do we pull the trigger on whatever we had planned last year (with regards to our pay banding) or do we readjust? I would have hoped that our MEC's with the JNC's would have been talking with ALPA National and knew what the Delta guys were shooting for.
Then again, with what is currently going on between our two side and no word yet from National.. not sure what to believe anymore.
just keeps getting better~
Motch
04-30-2012 | 11:35 AM
#22
Widebody
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
From: 777 CAP
Some more inside info...
Pierce has known about this strategy since January. EWR reps say they learned about it from the news... explain that!
ALPA national has known about it and is fully on board and Moak is filing for release today, and had taken Pierce to the woodshed for not getting on board with it.
We have criticized our previous chairman for her milquetoast approach, and we demanded as the membership a more aggresive approach, thank goodness we are getting it.
Previous message:
April 28, 2012
Dear Fellow Pilots,
A question for the Pilots of United Airlines: Are you content with the pace of negotiations in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012; and would you be content if negotiations extend into 2013?
On the Tip of the Spear.
We are United,
Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
Pierce has known about this strategy since January. EWR reps say they learned about it from the news... explain that!
ALPA national has known about it and is fully on board and Moak is filing for release today, and had taken Pierce to the woodshed for not getting on board with it.
We have criticized our previous chairman for her milquetoast approach, and we demanded as the membership a more aggresive approach, thank goodness we are getting it.
Previous message:
April 28, 2012
Dear Fellow Pilots,
A question for the Pilots of United Airlines: Are you content with the pace of negotiations in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012; and would you be content if negotiations extend into 2013?
On the Tip of the Spear.
We are United,
Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
04-30-2012 | 11:40 AM
#23
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
This was just posted on the Delta Side of the Forum.
Interesting reading.
Guess saying "See, we're all screwed up- it's Jay P's fault (and not the company).. Delta's is already close to a deal!" might not be the prudent thing to point at.
Long time lurker/occasional poster, but I can't not share this one. Let me say right up front that this is 3rd hand so please don't shoot the messenger!
OK, here goes:
Jumpseater with us today claims to have ties to a CPO and was told by his buddy in the CPO that we should see a TA on 18 May. Supposedly the MEC will see it on the 15th, and to us on the 18th. Details include 20% increase to the rates with "COLA" type increases per year later. 717s are in the deal and supposedly via a lease from Boeing after turn in from SWA. SWA pays some penalties etc but we get "new" leases from Boeing. Company will offer 500 early outs, and hiring will begin quickly. 50 seaters reduced to around 125 total. Now for the bad news: Supposedly company wants 90 seaters with some type of production balance. Also they want increased Code share with Alaska. The reason he claims the company wants a deal done quickly has to do with the loan for the refinery.
Again, please don't shoot the messenger. There is no way I can confirm any of this...it is just the rumor I heard today with a lot of details and a firm date (supposedly). I guess we will know soon.
Ready for incoming...Philly
So.. would that deal be acceptable here? Cause to me, it's a NO Vote.
Mind you, a 20% increase off of $114 for a Delta 757/767 driver would be $136 an hour, for me (756, 5hyr pay as of 1 Jan 2012 I'm getting $95! The most junior guy on the UAL list on the 757/767 is getting $109!)
So, do we pull the trigger on whatever we had planned last year (with regards to our pay banding) or do we readjust? I would have hoped that our MEC's with the JNC's would have been talking with ALPA National and knew what the Delta guys were shooting for.
Then again, with what is currently going on between our two side and no word yet from National.. not sure what to believe anymore.
just keeps getting better~
Motch
Interesting reading.
Guess saying "See, we're all screwed up- it's Jay P's fault (and not the company).. Delta's is already close to a deal!" might not be the prudent thing to point at.
Long time lurker/occasional poster, but I can't not share this one. Let me say right up front that this is 3rd hand so please don't shoot the messenger!
OK, here goes:
Jumpseater with us today claims to have ties to a CPO and was told by his buddy in the CPO that we should see a TA on 18 May. Supposedly the MEC will see it on the 15th, and to us on the 18th. Details include 20% increase to the rates with "COLA" type increases per year later. 717s are in the deal and supposedly via a lease from Boeing after turn in from SWA. SWA pays some penalties etc but we get "new" leases from Boeing. Company will offer 500 early outs, and hiring will begin quickly. 50 seaters reduced to around 125 total. Now for the bad news: Supposedly company wants 90 seaters with some type of production balance. Also they want increased Code share with Alaska. The reason he claims the company wants a deal done quickly has to do with the loan for the refinery.
Again, please don't shoot the messenger. There is no way I can confirm any of this...it is just the rumor I heard today with a lot of details and a firm date (supposedly). I guess we will know soon.
Ready for incoming...Philly
So.. would that deal be acceptable here? Cause to me, it's a NO Vote.
Mind you, a 20% increase off of $114 for a Delta 757/767 driver would be $136 an hour, for me (756, 5hyr pay as of 1 Jan 2012 I'm getting $95! The most junior guy on the UAL list on the 757/767 is getting $109!)
So, do we pull the trigger on whatever we had planned last year (with regards to our pay banding) or do we readjust? I would have hoped that our MEC's with the JNC's would have been talking with ALPA National and knew what the Delta guys were shooting for.
Then again, with what is currently going on between our two side and no word yet from National.. not sure what to believe anymore.
just keeps getting better~
Motch
It would be a NO vote for me too, based on the scope
04-30-2012 | 01:28 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 303
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From: 767 F/O
the most junior guy at United has been in this industry about 3 times longer than you (yes, do the math, 5*3 = 15). Hang in there, you'll get to the top of the longevity scale some day.
04-30-2012 | 02:05 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
From: EWR B737FO
Some more inside info...
Pierce has known about this strategy since January. EWR reps say they learned about it from the news... explain that!
ALPA national has known about it and is fully on board and Moak is filing for release today, and had taken Pierce to the woodshed for not getting on board with it.
We have criticized our previous chairman for her milquetoast approach, and we demanded as the membership a more aggresive approach, thank goodness we are getting it.
Previous message:
April 28, 2012
Dear FTellow Pilots,
A question for the Pilots of United Airlines: Are you content with the pace of negotiations in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012; and would you be content if negotiations extend into 2013?
On the Tip of the Spear.
We are United,
Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
Pierce has known about this strategy since January. EWR reps say they learned about it from the news... explain that!
ALPA national has known about it and is fully on board and Moak is filing for release today, and had taken Pierce to the woodshed for not getting on board with it.
We have criticized our previous chairman for her milquetoast approach, and we demanded as the membership a more aggresive approach, thank goodness we are getting it.
Previous message:
April 28, 2012
Dear FTellow Pilots,
A question for the Pilots of United Airlines: Are you content with the pace of negotiations in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012; and would you be content if negotiations extend into 2013?
On the Tip of the Spear.
We are United,
Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
How do you know JP knew about plan since Jan? What is your source?
04-30-2012 | 02:23 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Likes: 0
Ok, can you at least tell us which council, which position.. when you heard this?
That way, when I question my guys (and gal) I can point to a specific person.
It's my understanding you have 6 different councils, with FO & Capt Reps plus Sec Treas...
When I directly questioned your Council 11 Sec Treas in IAD last Wed (Apr 25th) about a meeting with Jay P.. he backed off of his statement.
He stated that Jay P has been invited to meetings with your MEC Chair, and he refused. When I asked him directly-
"Are you saying that your MEC Chair, Jay Heppner.. invited Jay Peirce to a meeting to discuss the fact that the UAL MEC was going to be putting out an announcement requesting release.. just after agreeing to a June 15th timeline with the company?!"
His answer was.. "um, no".
Think it's kinda important that we try to stick with facts as much as possible, because all these rumors will do nothing more that break us further apart.
That's also why Emails are King! Hard to deny something you put on paper, with your name to it.
Motch
PS>If your MEC is anything like ours (and from what I've read and heard.. it is), what one council says and does may be very different than what another council says and does... on some issues.
That way, when I question my guys (and gal) I can point to a specific person.
It's my understanding you have 6 different councils, with FO & Capt Reps plus Sec Treas...
When I directly questioned your Council 11 Sec Treas in IAD last Wed (Apr 25th) about a meeting with Jay P.. he backed off of his statement.
He stated that Jay P has been invited to meetings with your MEC Chair, and he refused. When I asked him directly-
"Are you saying that your MEC Chair, Jay Heppner.. invited Jay Peirce to a meeting to discuss the fact that the UAL MEC was going to be putting out an announcement requesting release.. just after agreeing to a June 15th timeline with the company?!"
His answer was.. "um, no".
Think it's kinda important that we try to stick with facts as much as possible, because all these rumors will do nothing more that break us further apart.
That's also why Emails are King! Hard to deny something you put on paper, with your name to it.
Motch
PS>If your MEC is anything like ours (and from what I've read and heard.. it is), what one council says and does may be very different than what another council says and does... on some issues.
A dozen or so rumors a day is a bit of a stretch.
04-30-2012 | 04:21 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,738
Likes: 5
From: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
(756, 5hyr pay as of 1 Jan 2012 I'm getting $95! The most junior guy on the UAL list on the 757/767 is getting $109!)
As is the most senior F/O on the 756 at UAL. 12 years is the top of the longevity scale and there is no one with less than 12 years at UAL.
04-30-2012 | 05:10 PM
#29
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
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From: 756 Left Side
I can't answer that because two years into negotiations, we haven't even STARTED talking about pay yet. Delta opens early and they are already further along in negotiations than we are... Apparently. The only thing that seems clear is that they are meeting MUCH more frequently than we are.
It would be a NO vote for me too, based on the scope
It would be a NO vote for me too, based on the scope
No..
Delta Management, just like UCH Management.. may have put something on the table, before the Union has.
You forget that UCH actually did put a compensation package on the table, last year.
Delta +$1.
A ****ty deal that the CAL + UAL Pilots rejected wholeheartedly.
It does sound like they are meeting alot more than we are. Which begs the question.. why? What does Delta Management need that would push them to offer something to their pilot group?
Delta Management isn't doing this because of the kindness of their hearts.
Motch
PS> They can offer anything they want.. if Scope is on the table (as in.. the company wants more relief), all bets are off.
04-30-2012 | 06:10 PM
#30
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Joined: Jun 2011
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This whole deal is about 1 thing and 1 thing only.
SCOPE.
Everything else is just the devil in the details.
We might sign a really cool cba. But, if the langauge gives the company the ability to keep up all the RJ flying, expand the RJ flying, or expand Aer Lingus type deals, then we all might as well go out and apply to Air China Southern.
SCOPE.
Everything else is just the devil in the details.
We might sign a really cool cba. But, if the langauge gives the company the ability to keep up all the RJ flying, expand the RJ flying, or expand Aer Lingus type deals, then we all might as well go out and apply to Air China Southern.
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