Release formally requested
 

Is anyone shocked the company wouldn't put in writing that they would commit to getting a deal by June despite telling everyone they would?


View this message on the Web

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April 30, 2012
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Dear United Pilots:
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I am writing to you today at a crossroads that has not been reached by United Pilots since 1985.* A crossroads that despite our best efforts to avoid, we have been driven to by an intransigent, out of touch management team that refuses to do its part in negotiating a collective bargaining agreement that reflects the sacrifices and commitment that this pilot group has made to United Airlines.*Today, April 30, 2012, I directed ALPA President Captain Lee Moak to formally submit the necessary paperwork to the National Mediation Board for our release from mediation.
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We have every expectation that our formal request will be honored and, through the steps delineated under the RLA, that we will be ultimately released from mediation into a “30 day cooling off period.”* During this upcoming period, we are obligated to honor the status quo between ALPA and UAL management. *There can be and will be no disruption by us of the company’s operations.* At the end of this cooling off period, barring the successful negotiation of a Tentative Agreement with United Airlines, ALPA pilots will be free to exercise self-help.
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Your Strategic Preparedness and Strike Committee (SPSC) is fully prepared to lead us in our self-help efforts and will be sending the latest information to you at the contact email address that you have provided us.
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The communications that I have sent to you over the last two weeks have clearly stated that our greatest leverage against this management team is the threat of self-help.* Notwithstanding that threat, the UAL CEO continues in his refusal to acknowledge that leverage, and has not directed his negotiators to make substantial meaningful progress towards the completion of our JCBA.
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The past decade has been a painful and costly one for us.* There is not one of us who has not been harmed financially, professionally and personally.* Over this same time, the management team that literally caused this pain, which shrank our airline and which brazenly thinks that it can take more from you has, as reported by the Associated Press here rewarded itself with retention bonuses, massive pay raises and stock distributions that can only be described as immoral, and triple what they were the previous year.
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Let me remind you of the failures of management that got us here.
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·******** During negotiations for our 2003 Bankruptcy Agreement, CEO Glenn Tilton repeatedly stated that there would be “Shared sacrifice, and shared rewards.”* He failed to deliver on that promise.
·******** At a US Senate Committee hearing on the proposed merger of UAL and CAL on May 27, 2010, Jeffrey Smisek stated, “We are committed to continuing our cooperative labor relations and to integrating our workforces in a fair and equitable manner and negotiating contracts with our unions that are fair to the employees and fair to the Company.”* Former CEO Glenn Tilton sat next to Mr. Smisek and corroborated this intent.* They have failed to do so.
·******** UAL management committed to negotiate our JCBA by September 2010.* They failed to do so.
·******** In discussions with some United Airlines MEC members in January 2012, the CEO dedicated himself to finishing negotiations without delay.* He has failed to do so.
·******** As of February 15, 2012, there have been approximately 100 negotiating meetings with approximately 20 of them supervised by the NMB.* On all major issues – work rules, R&I, Compensation and Scope - after two years in negotiations, not one of the cost item sections has been completed.
·******** There have been more than *150 meetings with United since negotiations began – executive management has attended six.
·******** THE CEO HAS ATTENDED ZERO NEGOTIATING SESSIONS SINCE NEGOTIATIONS BEGAN, despite his promises to Congress and to ALPA for a smooth and seamless resolution.
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I have been entrusted by the United MEC, and ultimately by the pilots of United Airlines to carry out the business of the pilots.* There is no more serious business than that which we are embarking upon today.* The team that we have assembled to advise us is second to none.* The firms that we have hired are nonpareil in the field of labor relations and more importantly, in attaining the successful completion of a collective bargaining agreement.
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Unity will carry us forward.* United Airlines management has once again succeeded, as it did in 1985, to unify this pilot group with intransigence, hubris and disdain for this pilot group.* We are singularly focused upon achieving an industry leading collective bargaining agreement.* Management will know the weight of the leverage that we now wield.*
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We are United,
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Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council
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Air Line Pilots Association, International
Air Line Pilots Association, International

'bout damn time...

Let's do this.

Werd. Ready for the fight

All for one, one for all
 

I might again be proud to be a well compensated, respected, professional United pilot. Victory rarely happens without a fight. "Lets rock"

Carpe Diem

" Let's Roll"

Flt 93
 

Thats what I meant....

But but but but but I thought we were making great progress!!!!

https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/Deskto...cumentID=48628

Here we go..........

NMB what say you? ---- Even if you say not a chance - the press ITSELF will pressure the BOD to chomp at Smisek's tail to get things going again at the negotiations.

Pierce- what say you? --- Who cares - you are a MGT shill - it was NEVER about you. It is about the UAL pilots (LUAL & LCAL) united against over 10 years of substandard contracts and job security. The "rest" of the pilots can be added to "THE" list or remain on it with added updated information.

FUPM

Call your LEC Reps, Skip JP, Get ONBD
 

CAL guys--call your LEC reps, skip JP, and get onbd this phcking train.

NObody wants to do this without you. You have been equally abused and delayed by this cleptocracy of a management team to what UAL has suffered. This is Your career, not JP's.

Good luck guys. I hope they release you. At the very least you'll maybe put some pressure on management due to the negative press.

This will be so poorly handled by the CAL MEC, I will have my ALPA decert paperwork ready to go.

As a L-CAL pilot I fully support JH.

While I agree completely with you, I have to add my opinion. As much as I think Pierce is obstructing progress towards a JCBA and that we'd be better off without him, I don't think we have time for that.

BY FAR our best way ahead is to GET THESE MECs TOGETHER to act in unity. That means that the CAL MEC is going to have to accept that Pierce works for THEM and act accordingly.

I'd love to just start throwing the bad actors out, but it's not feasible now. We need to ASSERT OURSELVES since this union works for US.

Count me in.
pksocal b767 f/o lax

I'm more than ready, more than willing and more than able. Let's do this.

Finally, some pilots with cajones at the majors. As a regional puke, Jay Heppner is my new hero. Take all your flying back too!

As a L-CAL pilot, I fully support getting a JCBA now, not necessarily any individual MC. Thats the goal, not putting halo's or wreaths on any MC. If we want to unify, it must be the MEC that must step up...and communicate/ coordinate. I support MY MEC and it's current approach to the Heppner plan. Would support the Heppner plan if my MEC had been engaged and briefed. Why would i trust UA MEC and Heppner with my future given the historical and current disdain for CAL pilots and repeated lack of coordination with my elected leadership on multiple issues. What arrogance to think we would just fall in- line w/ out some coordination with the CAL MEC. Talk with us...if you refuse to work Jointly with our elected leadership, then it will remain a stalemate. The MEC and LC reps need to take the lead in bringing the two pilot groups together. JP and JH are incapable because of the contol, power and politics of leading the future 12K pilots once we become ONE union and ALPA National. I do not believe Heppner is a fool, he understands the landscape of the L- UA pilots and I suspect has the best interest at heart for the L-UA pilots BUT certainly not the joint/ collective group.

I respectfully disagree with you.

FWIW, when you ask to be released, you just may GET released. You and the rest of the CAL pilots (MEC and MC included) may be faced with a choice if we are successful in getting released, but unsuccessful in getting a TA prior to the end of the cooling off period. I am encouraging you to consider that and plan appropriately.

Give it a rest. Your talk of coordination and communication has been empty ever since JP and the CAL MEC refused to attend the planned joint MEC meeting in March.
Where was all of your indignation then? Did you send a message to JP and your reps telling them how poorly they handled the situation for not attending a scheduled joint meeting?
Meanwhile, JP is attempting to hold the process hostage unless the UAL MEC drops the grievance and the T&PA legal action that the UAL MEC has pending against the company (and not the CAL pilots, as some on here would like to characterize it).
Its time for everybody to get on board. I think everybody can agree that we are long overdue for a contract.
Hog

No one has any disdain for CAL pilots. I'm quite tired of hearing that.

F16..I'm with you on the release...that specifically is not the issue for me or the CAL pilots I know. We don't know the plan, past what is currently known, a request for release. What if we get released? What if we get iced by the NMB for JH actions? What if it delays getting a TA? Those are the types of questions and assessments that should have been done Jointly with the experience, education and background from both unions to make the BEST decision. Bottomline, That's water under the bridge, so where do we go now...MEC/LC bringing the two groups together...as I stated earlier JP and JH are incapable.

I, too, respectfully disagree. Nobody is asking you to blindly trust anybody. Just asking that you consider the fact that you are getting two conflicting stories, and review the evidence to determine who is headed down the right path.

None of the facts in JH's message are in dispute. Despite the constant foot dragging outlined today, one MC continues to claim things are going great. The evidence offered is constant talking about small group meetings, company promises, and no other plan. If this is effective, where are the results? Not ONE cost section settled in 2 YEARS. The other MC has been indicating for months that the pace is unsatisfactory and action is needed. He was called a "Debbie Downer" on this board. This announcement is not out of left field. He's been beating the drum for months. At ANY time, JP could have gotten on board. Sadly EVERY update has been the same broken record about great progress. 4 months of great progress updates with zero results. How many months until it rings hollow?

JH and the UAL pilot group have no hatred for CAL pilots (scabs excluded). He went out of his way to make that very clear when he filed a grievance against the company for cheating us on the profit sharing we were due.

Your assertion that the UAL MEC has railroaded and back doored the CAL MEC at every turn also doesn't accurately portray the facts. From the initial salvo of CAL MEC threatening to walk from joint negotiations over a completely ridiculous pay banding stance is not an example of good group effort. Every CAL MEC update and JP blast mail goes to great lengths to discredit the UAL MC and MEC. Not ONE of JH's updates have mentioned the lack of support and untenable positions occasionally discovered at the CAL MEC. Which tact is better for unity?

JH is doing his job, and it makes me sad that you don't see a) the necessity of this action, and b) how this action helps YOU. The Heppner plan seeks to immediately put an end to the atrocious working conditions you suffer, the ridiculous end around the company played on your scope, and the outsourcing of your jobs overseas. The alternative is the JP plan; to trust thr company to do the right thing and have once a week meetings in small groups with no decision makers present.

We want you at our side. I'm quite confident that if JH had felt JP and the CAL MEC would support a release request, they would have been included. But just as we were not willing to give into that RIDICULOUS position that the 747-777 would be banded, but the A320-737 would be unbanded (both clearly advantaging the CAL pilot group) we are no longer willing to wait for more management stall tactics and small group meetings. I hope that we will all put the egos aside and close ranks, but if not, I'm willing to put my job and future on the line to engage in a legal strike for YOU to get the contract you deserve.

Yes! This!

Just read this and I seem to have misinterpreted your other post. I fully agree that it would be HUGELY beneficial for the MEC's to very quickly close ranks. Both sides have been terrible at this so far.
Frats

Here's the bottom line:
Option 1: NMB says 'nice try, but no'. Continue negotiating per status quo. No change for you.
Option 2: NMB says '*** is wrong with you?! You're in timeout!". No change for you. You have ZERO idea if it impacted when we would've gotten the JCBA even if we didn't act.
Option 3: NMB says 'here is your proffer of Binding Arbitration'. BIG change for you! You could be looking at a picket line in 40 days!

If I were you I'd plan for the worst case COA.

Seriously, I don't know the plan either Slammer. Let's look at what's best for the combined pilot group and go from there. I've already told my rep that I think it's crucial to get the CAL MEC on board. He's convinced that they will all be in favor...just as our MEC is. This might not have been a joint push, but the result will be a joint gain.

Oh really...you obviously don't understand the history between the two groups. Of course, its not every pilot at UA...but Ask any pilot at CAL with sometime on the line and they will tell you, that has historically been the case....birth from 83 and 85 and continues today. Im being honest about the realities of bringing these two culturally different pilot group together. It started well before this merger and not going away because we are tired of hearing it...

Ditto on getting reps to come out of their corners. Agree with you on option 3.

Were you here in 83 or 85? Have you directly experienced any disdain from UAL pilots?

If you are indeed a 737 FO I suspect that you are repeating 2nd or 3rd hand info from family members or coworkers (I feel dirty typing that). I've been at UAL for 15 years and the ONLY negative thing I've heard about CAL pilots relates to the scabs. If anything, the UAL pilot group has been apathetic about CAL. There is absolutely NOTHING inherent in our two groups that should prevent unity. Your scabs can hang with our scabs the rest of us can drink beer and talk sh!t.:D

Not true. I have no disdain, and I have NEVER heard of any disdain for the CAL pilots. I want the best for the ENTIRE pilot group.

I can't think of any instances where there is any animosity with one group to the other. Of course, this and other forums DO NOT COUNT because guys get all chest-beat-y over stuff on forums that would be over & done in a heartbeat in person. Nobody can type fast enough to actually converse on a forum.

So, while some of us have differing opinions over details, we all are freakin' sick and tired of the stonewalling from management.

Lack of communication is a big deal to all of us, and I think we have to place a certain amount of trust in our MECs, given that anything said to the pilots publicly is the same as sending Jeff an email with a bullet-pointed outline.

This request for release is, to me, a very polarizing event. If Jeff had any clue that our pilots were in harmonious unity, he'd be signing tomorrow.

It's time to fish or cut bait.

I'm stocking my tackle box.

C/B

T/W

I admit, Disdain is too harsh of a word but there are attitudes that exist today, dating yearsbback. Answer to your first question is yes, both first hand and second hand knowledege through other CAPTs Ive flown with.....as it is tied to the scabs at CAL. i Had a 767 FO on the jumpseat (SFO-LAS). Capt was a scab, 767 FO was vocal about scabs and viewed CAL pilots as " needing to step" up. Capt didn't say much, although it got under his skin. I thought he was going to speak up and/ or kick the FO out of the jump seat. I was good with it all Until the FO tied all our pilots to scab mentaility...Figuratievly the gloves came off...and after a few words, he seem to get the point about respect.

Quit your whining and get onboard with the oncoming fight.

OK Here We GO!

Slammer and all the others who keep asking questions and what ifs, well the time is up. You have to all stop the whining and make a decision, will you support the possibility of a job action or not?

Things are very simple now so start planning for a loss of pay and a battle. Fly your contract, stop slamming your fellow pilots and basically the time for talk is over.

I trust the direction JH and the UAL MEC are going and see no other way to get this contract done. So relax, batten down your hatches and enjoy the next couple of months. You are making the right kind of history now!

Oh and guess what life isn't about to end.

Here it is-

OK.

I am really confused now.

1. Is Jay Happner asking for relase on behalf of the UAL pilots, or the CAL pilots, and/or both groups?

2. If he is asking for release of both groups of pilots, under what authority does he act?

3. Under the ALPA CBA, does another MEC MC have the authority to ask for such, and procedurally, how could the ALPA President honor such a request if the requester doesn't have legal authority to ask for it?

4. Did the CAL MEC vote on this as well?

5. Did the UAL MEC direct JH to do this, even though the CAL MEC may not have voted on it?

6. Have both MEC's voted to request that CA. Happner serve as the "joint spokesperson" on behalf of joint negotiations?

7. IF the ALPA President submits a request for relase of just the UAL pilots, where does that leave joint negotiations?

And when will their be "enough" time. 2 years is enough, 10 years and no pay increase is enough....time to move on.
Delta will have their second contract before we have our first. This Mgt team will pay themselves, because oh they are worth it, but no one else.

J

Ben Franklin, Conan the Barbarian, and JCBA
 

Ben Franklin, at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Conan the Barbarian, paraphrased, at JCBA negotiations (including the warrior tribes of UALand and CALtopia:

"CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES, SEE HIM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU; HEAR THE LAMENTATIONS OF HIS SHAREHOLDERS!"


2 v 1. Tapes on; Fight's On!

So JP and JH met? That's what the WSJ is saying Pierce stated.?

And why the change of mind from some people here? When JP asked for the Profit Sharing, he was doing the right thing for the CAL pilots. But now when JH does something for the UAL pilots, he's wrong? :confused:

You're obviously misreading me.

I think this WSJ writer is pretty clueless, and doing some pretty creative interpretation of what's actually known.

On top of that, she writes like a six year-old. When did WSJ start hiring functional illiterates?

T/W