Joint MEC Message
 

May 4, 2012
Dear Fellow Pilot,
We write jointly to update all of you on our Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) negotiations and to discuss our joint steps going forward. We do this from our common recognition that we can and we must complete this negotiation.
Our Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) has in fact made significant recent progress in scheduling and hours of service, but many issues remain. We have also agreed to dates for meetings on the critical issues of job security and scope, but we know that these are hard-fought issues. And we must also move on to the essential matter of our rates of pay.

So how can we complete the task at hand? This is our plan:

• First, the two of us will meet next Tuesday with outside legislative/regulatory advisors in Washington, D.C., to help us build support within our government for intensive negotiations and for a firm time line, including consideration of a joint request for a release from mediation, to complete the job.
• Second, on May 17 and 18, our two MECs will be meeting jointly in Washington, D.C., to confirm our course going forward.
• Third, starting immediately and through the remainder of May, the JNC will negotiate intensively with management to close out as many of the open scheduling, job security/scope and benefit issues as possible.
• Fourth—and this is key—at the end of May, we will commence concentrated bargaining, with involvement from the highest levels of the National Mediation Board (NMB) in Washington, D.C., to continue to the middle of June.

We are confident that the intensive efforts in May and the concentrated sessions in June can and should result in a comprehensive tentative agreement.
Differences between pilot groups are natural, even within the same union, and we’ve certainly had our share. But we share something more important—a common goal—to make sure that the contributions that every one of our pilots have made to the survival and success of our Company are fairly rewarded through our JCBA. And when we—all of us working together—have completed that goal, we will indeed be one pilot group ready for the future.
We need your unified support to reach this goal. We will jointly provide more information on a regular basis over the coming weeks.

Serious question.....Where was this letter obtained?? Have not seen a copy of this in any MEC Email/Update/Blastmail/CAL-Position Report/Ect....Where did you get this?

If it's "true" (which like heck, I hope it is), I like the words "This is OUR plan". If the aim is focused at being a joint force, while taking a unified stance at MGT, and getting a solid (J)CBA together.....this could be calls for being cautiously optimistic. Patience and time are not abundant, so things need to 'move'.

Aren't they still in CDG at the conference? If a little wine/cheese/baguets bring harmony to get unified, this should have been weeks ago.

Ditto.

Would have thought this would come directly from the Jays.

Council update email.

Your council just hasn't forwarded it yet, it's coming.

^^^^^^ JUST HIT ^^^^^^

Got it in my Email Box about 10 mins ago.

Legit w/ their signatures imposed as well.

Thanks for the 'sneak preview'

Just got the email, one of the better ones I have received in a while.

Indeed it is here as well.

Well folks, onwards and hopefully together towards the contract we deserve.

Glad to see some co-ordination finally.

This sounds like a GREAT plan forward which addresses the concerns of both our groups well. WHEN (not if) management fails to actually negotiate, it sounds like we are all getting ready to sing on the same sheet of music.

Blah, Blah, Blah.....Heard this before. Doesn't mean chit without a line in sand. Very disappointed with Moak and Peirce.

This letter came from the below the radar meeting that Moak brokered. The letter was released through the standard AMES system out of herndon, to all CAL and UAL pilots who have signed up for those blastmails.

I am aware of that NOW, and that's how I got it.

If you look at the TIME STAMPS on my first vs second post, you may notice the almost 30 min lag.....Thus my question in the first post. If you read the thread following my first post, you may notice that I was NOT the only one with an ISP lag in receiving it. Again, "Trust, but Verify".

As far is it being a 'brokered' meeting, NO doubt. Anyone who has followed this train wreck over the last few weeks would be 'deaf/blind' as to NOT notice all the under-tones of "come out of the room smiling". I be honest, I don't care if it was "begged, brokered, stole"....just as long as this three-way triangle becomes a "Mono y Mono"....US vs THEM (Mgt).....like NOW.

As much as I desire to move forward and I'm sure we will eventually as unified pilot groups, can't help but voice my frustration over how little has been accomplished towards this contract.

It's clear while many sections have been finished, the hardest fought and most problematic areas have not been touched or even discussed much against the portrayal certains figures have made about progress and achievement.

While scheduling and hours are a complex and critical part, by far the meat intended to fight over is outsourcing, JVs and scope as well as pay.

It's seems these have not even been discussed? Scope alone dictates the futures of several work groups. Perhaps I'm pessimistic but how are they to close that gap in such a short time?

Maybe others have more confident positions to speak from.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but I also suspect that the company is trying the tactic of trying to show a little light at the end of the tunnel, then withdrawing in an effort to wear us down and dump our spirits.

So, I got one word: SHOWMETHEMONEYSCOPEWORKRULESBENEFITS

C/B

T/W

Yeah, great we are unified...

With milquetoast, politically correct, ambiguousness again.

Moak, can't wait to fire you.
But I'll wait until after contract 2013, I guess.
:mad:

Disappointed with the POS Moak and Pierce! What about the POS Heppner? He sold out the United pilots for the sake of ALPA National. Moak could care less about the UAL or CAL pilots. June will come and next June will follow and we'll still be without a contract. Really dissappointed in the Heppner actions. He knows he's being played by Moak and Pierce and caved - Maybe it's time for another recall. What do you think West Coasters?

????

Not me... If this summer slips through our fingers, our leverage is gone. I want to see pre determined accomplishment goals and specific gates.

Just like our training department suggests pilots use "gates" for criteria measurement points to consider the continuation of an approach, where when specifics are not met at the gate, a go-around is initiated, if our goals are not being met at gates of measure, we immediately return to seeking release.

I stand corrected. He caved.

Recall?!?!? How many times does it take? Glawe, Morse, etc. Even Dubinsky gave us a chit sandwich wrapped in $$$. C2000 was simply RJ's in exchange for cash. Hey guys, how did that work out? If anything, it's time for a new union. ALPA National sold us down the river after 9/11, in bankruptcy, etc. When was the last time National backed UAL pilots? I say it's time to stop giving them what little cash we have left.

We have 3 gates left this year.

1. July 4
2. Nov 27th
3. Dec 25th

Well I'll get murdered for this, but why don't we see what this circus of morons can pull off by this mid June deadline they have so loudly given themselves. Yes I know this management team is as nasty as Goldman Sachs, but being negative hasn't done a thing for us in the last two years. This is the final straw for me on the JP 'steady progress' garbage. If they fail this one then it is time put rubber to road when it comes to throwing out every rep standing in JP's shadow.

Que Dexim/Once United...

Dude, you just don't get it do you?

+1

Same guy that asked the most basic of process and organization questions, then goes on to post "insider" info from his "sources". :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don't know that I agree with that. I too want to be released. Hep at least brought it up. If Moak said, point blank, "I'm not submitting your release request", then Moak is the one who sold us out. At that point it'd be a matter of damage control. There's the option to pull out of ALPA, but I think that has its own set of problems. I'm still backing Hepner. I'm not optimistic, but I'm also not going to tarnish the reputation of Heppner by slinging insults at him without all the facts. He has done more to advance us towards release than Wendy ever did. Just saying.

If you're going to quote me, then leave it in context.

I pasted my post here again, but I bolded the parts you missed.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but I also suspect that the company is trying the tactic of trying to show a little light at the end of the tunnel, then withdrawing in an effort to wear us down and dump our spirits.

So, I got one word: SHOWMETHEMONEYSCOPEWORKRULESBENEFITS

I am in complete agreement with you, by the way, and didn't say anything to the contrary.

C/B

T/W
__________________

Cautiously optimistic!! Are you KIDDING ME!! How many times do you need to get bent over and lied to before say enough is enough! It's past time to throw down.

I'd have been cautiously optimistic if we were released and our cooling off period ended mid June. This is nothing more snake oil and BS!

Yes, cautiously optimistic. But highly suspicious of management bait-and-switch. The cautious optimism is because of the Two Jays actually apparently in agreement on something. We can't win *** if they are at odds, so it's a big step, no?

T/W

Is the glass half full....
 

Gentlemen,

I for one am willing to hold you to your message. You have this published window of time to deliver...but not beyond...
Make us all proud to be UNITED!

Yeah it's step for sure. But what are we going to do not if, but when the magical deadline comes and goes?

Send another strongly worded letter to management? :rolleyes:

We are squandering our summer opportunity here.

I was critical of Pierce because he sold us out to the company. I hold Heppner to a higher standard. He knew with this meeting that Moak wanted to come away looking like the messiah. Pierce loved the fact he'd get a free ride after the stuff he's pulled since merger. Heppner came away looking like a lap boy. How long has it been since we got a contract? Heppner has been there - ask him. How many of the little deadlines have come and past? These guys are keeping money out of our pockets by playing games - Do you really feel they've earned the right to take/keep what's due you and your family. Every United Pilot should call or email their LEC reps and demand to know why Heppner folded. What did Heppner give away for this new found unity.

BS. You are barking up the wrong tree here. Name one person BESIDES Heppner who had done ANYTHING to advance negotiations?

Au contraire. The summer is ripe. And it's co-widget himself who is painting himself into that corner. All we have to do is keep giving him paint and brushes.

And if the salaried co-widgets don't play by their agreed-upon rules, it will not bode well with the National Mediation Board.

Trust this to be true.

TW

Ah, patience grasshopper, Hepner is playing this like a fine fiddle. He has Pierce and Moak in a box, if it was left up to them there would never be a release. A few weeks to let the witches brew does not really matter. Getting the concessionists on board, willingly or not, is just brilliant. Call it games if you want, but this is how it is done. Who knows, the company may be willing to negotiate now that Hepner has given them a glimpse into the future. He has moved the ball, even the CAL rank and file appreciate his smoking out the miscreants. I don't think JH gives a hoot who get's the credit, he is not a chest beater.

The specter of labor unrest this summer at UCH, with the loss of bookings will do more for the negotiating process than anything else. The public does not know anything about the NMB or RLA, all they hear is there may be a strike. Why take a chance, book another airline. That loss of revenue has a beneficial effect for negotiations. For this management it is only about the numbers, unlike Ferris and Lorenzo who were ideologues, well maybe not Ferris, he was just stupid.

You have a leader now, rally around him and this will get done.

Baron50

It's unfortunate that you feel you've been quoted out of context, but you won't catch me using the word optimistic, not even cautiously, with regard to a JCBA, as long as JP "represents" the L-CAL pilots.

In the same way that reps from CAL LECs have all been chilled, JH has now fallen under JP's hypnotic power. Was it the french wine? Or that previously avoided one on one meeting?

Well I agree that I like the latest message but why does it seem like you are always lost in 1985 and always ready to beat you chest regarding that time frame. It really was not that great of time and many feel we took a bit of a beating when the brown suiters were collapsing at the end.

Worried about the public and bookings, please give me a break. You give this company too much credit and the public for that matter.

However maybe we will get this done dispite those involved.

You are dead on! Heppner screwed the pooch on this one. You don't use a howitzer (like publically asking for a release) to "smoke out" JP or Moak. Heppner beat his chest with the release and then shrinked away and caved to a milqtoast like pierce. What happens the next time when we really need to ask for a release. The pilots yawn, the press yawns, pierce yawns and everyone says "are you for real this time or are you going to cave again."

Asking for a release and knowing you aren't going to get one during an election year was just plain folly! Heppner was beating his chest and used this as a political tool. Unfortunately it had the same effect as a "Hats Off" switch. Shame on him!

I guess the head in the sand approach is working for you West Coast guys. ORD and points East find the sand a little harder. I'm not going to buy your "The specter of labor unrest this summer at UCH, " and "Why take a chance" approach. Too many summers have past with those little nuggets and we didn't get a contract - I don't think it worked slick. Why keep trying the same thing.

"Hepner is playing this like a fine fiddle. He has Pierce and Moak in a box." You put these guys on a pedestal like great Chess players and I don't like telling you this because it does weaken us all. They are not playing Chess, not even Checkers, but instead Marbles. These are the same guys playing with you and your families future. They continue to help the company keep money out of your pocket. You are an self described "Old Cap" so it doesn't matter to much, but what about those pulling gear for you? You want to cut them some slack and help them get a piece of the pie?

Good Cop/Bad Cop
 

What if LM & JP now tell UCH: "We barely headed off a disaster here, but we can't hold JH much longer. Don't make us throw up our hands and walk out. It will be his turn next."
Could that be the plan? :confused:

Thats the way I see it. At least, JH is exerting leverage instead of whining like school girls.

It blows my mind that ALPA has ultimate control of the situation and continually capitulates. We could shut down the air commerce overnight for the largest economy in the world. Yes, that would require ALPA wide unity and would be viewed negatively by lawyers and politicians. I guess the Boston Tea Partiers risked less..............

Carpe Diem

LM and JP are political climbers and with his actions JH is going along for the ride. The company probable thought it would play out this way and will now give us their answer DELAY,DELAY,DELAY.....................DELAY. Pierce has put the contract on the company's time table and LM and Heppner are joining him. You don't see anything wrong with this?

Every UAL and CAL pilot should be .....ed at the latest and demand that our LEC's hold the MEC chairman accountable. Start by calling and emailing your LEC rep's. Are you tired of being steamrolled - Do Something!!!!

Folly? You are right, JH asked for a release when he knew we aren't getting released. Why? Could it be he wanted to stop getting filtered by JP to the CAL MEC and get the two MECs together? The UAL MEC pleaded with Lee Joak back in February to hold combined MEC meetings. Looks like JH and the UAL MEC got what they wanted. How can you have unity if the elected leaders of the two groups don't even get together? It's now time for the CAL MEC to step up.

It's not a bad thing to get those truly elected by the pilots together to hash this out. And it is essential for us, all of us, to let our reps know how we feel.

Frats,

Big O

Those comments do not make much sense. How is the union helping the company “keep money out of our pockets?” Are you saying that if the union just plays ball with management, they will give everyone a raise for no good reason? Sorry, I think you may not understand what motivates them.

I am not sure how to “cut them some slack” this is not a junior versus senior issue, as you would introduce into this discussion, it’s about a pay raise for everyone. Are you saying a strike would hurt the junior more than the senior? That dog doesn’t hunt, obviously everyone will be affected differently. If you would like your particular seniority group to have a greater “piece of the pie” that is another thread entirely, I would rather have a bigger pie.

You ask, “Why keep trying the same thing.” Well, you may have missed it, but starting the process for a withdrawal of services is unlike anything that has been done before in this round of negotiations. The ancillary benefit is the cost to the corporation, that helps them do the math. I agree, picketing the terminal and inflatable pigs won’t get it anymore and the courts have taken away the other tools. If this wasn’t a bold move, why are you so exercised about it?

Your east versus west coast comment is divisive, we need to put the politics behind, it only creates discord and destroys unity while playing into management’s hands. Also, don’t you think calling someone “Slick” is a bit rude?

Baron50