Doesn't what the TK guy said help one of UAL's foundational SLI arguments? That the furloughs were merger related therefore the snapshot must occur before the furloughs?

If a recall to CAL is considered the equivalent to a recall to UAL/CAL/both, then doesn't it follow that a furlough from UAL must have been considered a furlough from CAL/UAL/both, therefore the company must be considering and must HAVE considered all the pilots to be in one group BEFORE the furlough, not after, which would be quite a significant determinant in an SLI?

OTOH, the CAL pilots could use your argument that the furloughs were not merger related since you do not now consider a recall to CAL a recall to UAL, therefore you must now consider and must HAVE considered the original furlough to be from UAL alone and had nothing to do with CAL and the merger.

Be careful what you wish for.

NOT ONE SINGLE SOLITARY UAL PILOT HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BYPASS!!! Get that through your thick skull. Not one of them has been recalled. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

The CAL deal is a preferential hiring scheme not a recall. We've got guys who are 747 capts on furlough. Coming over to LCAL to pull gear as a new hire on a 737 is NOT A RECALL I'm sure even you can understand that. How can somebody be recalled to an airline they have NEVER worked for??

Some of our guys took the LCAL deal but the rest of them are still on the street waiting for a RECALL taking a job as a new hire on the bottom of seniority list and being recalled to your rightful place in a seniority list are two completely separate non related issues. The level of ignorance and misunderstanding of basic airline seniority issues with some of you guys is simply beyond belief.

OK if the guys who took LCAL jobs are to be considered recalled. Then the voluntary guys almost all of whom have 20+ years seniority and left captains positions on the 777/747 and 756 should be slipping into 787,777 and 756 captains seats at LCAL. Pure and simple no two ways about it. After all a recall is a recall and during a recall you will be placed into the seniority list where you left it. That is unimpeachable.

I agree. The UAL pilots now flying at CAL should not be considered recalled.

You've got to wonder if the company taking this position, that UAL pilots are recalled, has to do with training costs. If there is a JCBA/SLI and no fences on the 737 fleet, they could have a system bid in the spring in which the some (many?) of the UAL pilots on the 737 might bid to remain on the 737 at their new SLI seniority, thus reducing the training costs. That there are as of Sept 737 bases in three UAL hubs might increase the take rate on a bid.

Nothing crazy or unforeseen about the way UAL does business, plenty of forces that could furlough new hires and bottom feeder pilots:

1. Age 67 goes through
2. We get a bad deal on scope in the JCBA, and it passes. (although scope is supposed to be the biggest issue for the JCBA)
3. UAL decides they need to park older "inefficient" airplanes...
4. More Air Lingus type operations.

etc, etc..I could go on.

We have seen it all before!

I think you are right on the money. And by doing so they are completely sqrewing over our senior furloughees and all of our furloughees still on the street who have no desire to be shoved into the over the top abusive system that is LCAL reserve.

So, all new hires at L-CAL, who now have senority numbers, will ALL get furloughed due to returning L-UAL folks? That just sounds like bad info. Can someone else confirm this?

That system will be gone in a new JCBA. I am fully confident the UAL pilots on the negotiating team laughed at CAL's reserve "rules" (there are few to none) and made it clear there was no way a contract would pass on the UAL side if there was a regression in this area. We'll have UAL's rules or better in this section, no doubt.

Someone please show me a time that an airline furloughed a junior person for the sole reason to bring back a senior person.

That is exactly what AirHoss is predicting.

BTW: I understand the situation regarding recalls at UAL versus new hire opportunity at CAL. I don't know why you think I can't get it thru my "thick skull".

Let me understand...you want me to believe that all of the sudden you have this deep sensitivity to sUAL furloughee's plight? You don't have a clue what each and every one of us has endured...why do I say this? Because you don't me or many other furloughees and what we've had to do to survive. Senior UAL pilots boned us and if that wasn't good enough...you want to call many "short sighted and so stupid". Many airlines shared the pain during the worst recession in ages by working with management to save jobs via a reduction in hours. That was unions sharing the pain from a recession not created by UAL, but UAL ALPA leaders/pilots said no...hid there greed and disconcern for junior pilots via a couragous "we won't take any more concessions". Those actions have done more to divide the sUAL pilot group (if you include the furloughees) than any management ploy could have dreamed up.
Many of us are tired of trips to combat zones in the middle east...so I doubt if any of my peers give much weight to what you think about the choice to "pulling gear" at CAL. I don't know you either but wishing harm to the most screwed pilots in many years is pretty low don't you think?
OBTW...bypass is a word that can be used by more than sUAL...it is also used if you do not take the sCAL offer.