System Bid Out
 

I'm glad to be wrong here. Now for a JCBA. FUPM!!!!!

Cle 737 ca - 0
cle 737 fo - 0
den 737 ca - 44
den 737 fo - 38
nyc 737 ca - 32
nyc 737 fo - 38
iah 737 ca - 39
iah 737 fo - 21
gum 737 ca - 0
gum 737 fo - 14
lax 737 ca - 10
lax 737 fo - 11
ord 737 ca - 39
ord 737 fo - 36

nyc 756 ca - 9
nyc 756 fo - 36
iah 756 ca - 5
iah 756 fo - 0

nyc 777 ca - 8
nyc 777 fo 0 21
iah 777 ca - 0
iah 777 fo - 0

iah 787 ca - 16
iah 787 fo - 34


total ca - 202
total fo - 249

How many of these FO spots are new/growth?

MEANWHILE back at the ranch.

L-UAL bids.

O NADA ZIP.............

Expecting bumps soon.

This is beyond infuriating it's down right in your face and it's worth fighting over!! Either UCH quits ignoring the LUAL side or this thing will implode in a major way.

There are 451 vacancies....system wide LCAL...they have some serious hiring to do.

Interesting, can you not see what's happening here??

Hiring off the street? Or hiring UAL furloughees?

Im just on the outside looking in, hope for a JCBA for both groups ASAP. Good luck

We don't know. Considering that all L-UAL furloughees have now been offered the job it's very likely (IMHO) that off the street hiring will occur if the vacancies actually develop.

I've heard off the street in the fall...the UAL guys still have rights to the jobs, but some are bypassing or not coming at all. We've heard they've gone through the UAL furlough list, and only 350 or so took the job. Strictly rumor mill though for what it's worth.

That is not looking promising at all. So far the leaks have it as a substandard deal.

Ick. Sad to hear. Im far removed but was hoping that the DAL+1 rumors were true

This shows the vacancies if you can decipher it.CLE 737 CA 1 117 115 117 -
CLE 737 FO - 116 114 116 -
DEN 737 CA - 34 78 78 44 Vacancies
DEN 737 FO - 39 77 77 38 Vacancies
NYC 737 CA 7 282 314 314 32 Vacancies
NYC 737 FO 1 277 315 315 38 Vacancies
IAH 737 CA 14 575 614 614 39 Vacancies
IAH 737 FO 1 591 612 612 21 Vacancies
GUM 737 CA 2 68 65 68 -
GUM 737 FO - 60 74 74 14 Vacancies
LAX 737 CA 3 72 82 82 10 Vacancies
LAX 737 FO - 72 83 83 11 Vacancies
ORD 737 CA - 34 73 73 39 Vacancies
ORD 737 FO - 36 72 72 36 Vacancies
737 CA Total 27 1,182 1,341 1,346 164 Vacancies
737 FO Total 2 1,191 1,347 1,349 158 Vacancies

NYC 756 CA 13 304 313 313 9 Vacancies
NYC 756 FO - 419 455 455 36 Vacancies
IAH 756 CA 4 160 165 165 5 Vacancies
IAH 756 FO - 221 200 221 -
756 CA Total 17 464 478 478 14 Vacancies
756 FO Total - 640 655 676 36 Vacancies

NYC 777 CA 10 124 132 132 8 Vacancies
NYC 777 FO 3 324 345 345 21 Vacancies
IAH 777 CA 4 42 42 42 -
IAH 777 FO - 91 91 91 -
777 CA Total 14 166 174 174 8 Vacancies
777 FO Total 3 415 436 436 21 Vacancies

IAH 787 CA 8 38 54 54 16 Vacancies
IAH 787 FO - 98 132 132 34 Vacancies
787 CA Total 8 38 54 54 16 Vacancies
787 FO Total - 98 132 132 34 Vacancies

System CA Total 66 1,850 2,047 2,052 202 Vacancies
System FO Total 5 2,344 2,570 2,593 249 Vacancies
System All Total 71 4,194 4,617 4,645 451 Vacancies

71 retirements and 451 vacancies. So 380 new positions.

Or former L-UAL positions............roughly 10% "growth". Read the TPA - I will give you a guess what the magic percentage that L-CAL can grow without growing L-UAL.

We need a RELEASE soon........

It does make me wonder how the new hires off the street would be treated. (I am not trying to instigate--just wondering)

Do you think there will be strife? Negative and possibly inappropriate labels? The "230" or something? Just curious about people's thoughts on this.

They would be treated just fine, just like anyone else. Labels and name calling is mostly done by chest pounders on these forums and in private conversations. This is a major corporation, they don't tolerate harrassment of any kind. I wouldnt worry about that at all. Get your app in, and good luck to you.

I agree 100%. Just seeing how people felt.

I dunno Hoss. We must be flying with different groups of L-UAL pilots. Many that I work with will jump right in line once the whip cracks.

I do agree it's worth fighting over and i'm hoping this group will grow a collective pair. If 93 of the 202 Captain bids in our legacy domiciles doesn't wake the beast, i'm not sure anything will.

Disgusted

Sounds eerily similar to the L-CAL side as well. Only, been going on for 29 or so years.

Noooooo.

They are trying to pull a CAL/ EAL here, growing one and shrinking the other into extinction.

Hoss,

Have you tried to advocate that position to those you are flying with? How was it received?

This is hostile. I was bumped from 320 captain couple years ago, and all the cal 737 cap positions will fill up before sli.
this is similar to cal sucking life out of eastern.
i hate this #*&% place more and more every day.
STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE

99.9% Agreement save the very rare cool aide drinker...

Yep me too...While these LCAL guys are dribbling down their legs with excitement over this system bid and new hires we here at LUAL are still having our faces shoved in a big ole bucket of steamy, stagnant, management manure. No movement, no future, no end in sight.

This is going to stop, this is going to be dealt with.

This bid is a ********n carrot and nothing more to get 50% +1 to vote in a sh***y TA once it finally gets here. The company is so far ahead of us its laughable. See how many of these vacancies will be here after we sell our scope. Don't buy this company bull ******.
Don't give up scope!

In my interactions, I'm very impressed how they "talk" a good game.

Where were you this Summer? CAL was cancelling flights all Summer due to lack of crews. Training was cancelled so instructors and those who were scheduled for recurrent simulators could cover the schedule. This weekend they are offering 150% pay for anyone on the 756 to pick up a trip. This bid should have come out a year ago so this Summer would have not been what it was but no, nobody wanted to stand up and admit how understaffed CAL was. This Summer, with the aircraft redeployment forcing more 4 and 5 day trips from IAH and EWR, staffing was hurt by a single sick call now wiping out 5 days vs. a 2 day trip a year ago etc.

Is the answer to park these new planes instead of flying them as they are delivered? You guys at L-UAL have vacancy bids each month. We have vacancy bids twice a year. The numbers were high but you have to put them in the proper context.

If I were king, we would already have a SLI and contract so people could plan their lives over the long term. A bid like this on the CAL side only gives pilots expectations that might change dramatically once a SLI is complete. Those new captain positions will not last forever if there is an integration etc. You guys are getting our 737-900ER deliveries next year as 757's are parked. You don't see outrage on the CAL side over that. We hate that the 757's are going to be parked over the next few years as an older 757 beats the heck out of a brand new 737 any day of the week.

Let's not get too emotional over this bid announcement.

Desperately being dead headed around the system as they tried to use me to plug holes.

And we are talking about bumping pilots over here!

And we have such a surplus they are giving out voluntary leaves on this side.

Until we have a contract the answer is to PARK the whole airline.

REALLY?? I haven't noticed that.

If there is an integration REALLY, I thought it was when? Cry me a river over those potential "lost" captain positions. There are only a small percentage of F/O's over here that haven't had fourth stripe ripped from them.

Oh boy and the net "gain" is smaller than the net loss of airframes. IE We are being shrunk. Not to mention we are trading in real airplanes for kiddie car POS AKA 737's.

Don't tell me not to get emotional. I am righteously ****ed OFF. And every pilot on the LUAL should be equally ****ed off. We are being disregarded, passed over and generally screwed blued and tattooed by your management. This is absolute proof that Jeffy is trying to pull a CAL EAL 2012 here. It's time to fight.

Management's "divide and conquer" tactics never seem to fail. Why should they change their game plan? While a 99% strike vote shows that we're on the same page, throw in a system bid on the CAL side and watch the divisiveness grow... Again.
Does anyone honestly believe that it's rosy on the CAL side? Does anyone really believe that being the current "favored child" means that we're in a "happy family?"

IAHB756,

Now that the summer rush is over they are claiming pilot surplus over here. Can you not see how they are trying to use divide and conquer? They are growing you guys and they are shrinking us. If it's not pretty obvious it should be.

Guys hired in 2005 might loose their captains bids? I doubt it, but guys hired in 2000 over here are furloughed and guys like myself who were hired in 1997 were surplussed off the captains seats two to three years ago and are now sitting as bottom reserves on the right seat of the 756 or are on the right seat of the A-320.

The inequities here are astounding and growing by the day.

I would be frustrated as well but the guys hired in 2000 being furloughed is not a result of this merger. In fact, anything negative that happened to the pilots in the service of United Airlines prior to the merger date is a result of bad management decisions that were made by United management over a decade ago. You can't ask Continental pilots to pay for that somehow. We are living under a terrible contract over here as we speak. Throwing a bunch of captain positions at a group of pilots that are abused on reserve is a joke. Wouldn't be surprised if those 737 captain positions don't go all the way to the guys from L-UAL who took the CAL offer of employment. In fact, maybe that should happen but these aircraft were ordered prior to the merger announcement. CAL has been taking new 737's for a decade. We ordered 787's seven years ago. They are finally arriving. The delays were not some master plan to screw the UAL pilots and favor the CAL pilots. If these damn 787's had arrived as planned many of us would have been in the left seat prior to the merger announcement.

I'm just ready for this to all be over. Have not ran into a L-UAL pilot I could not share a cockpit with and I have sat on quite a few jumpseats over the last year.

I really don't think our mgmt has the foresight to think that far ahead. This bid only reflects aircraft deliveries and retirements that have been scheduled for years now. They are probably in shock that they will actually have to staff the 787.

CAL was growing before the merger and continues to grow ever so slightly as a separate group. They wont hold up their business plan due to pilots..focus needs be on CBA and a fairly integrated seniority list making this all moot.

What ever decisions the inept UAL management made prior to the merger has no bearing on the pilots of Continental Airlines.

Now..let the drama post's continue

IAH,

I'm not PO'ed at "you" guys, the line pilots of LCAL. I'am PO'ed at UCH management. But it is imperative that "you" guys understand what they are doing to "us" guys.

This looks to me like a strike may well be necessary after all. I just hope that we are all on the same page.

As someone who wants to fly for the new United, and as much as I want to be on property sooner than later, I TOTALLY agree with your last statement! Giving up scope only gives management more power. I fly the EMB-170/175 which is a MAINLINE aircraft much like the DC-9 was back in the day (and still is to a limited degree today). Many of my colleagues and I wish that this aircraft had stayed with mainline which would have allowed us to be with the mainline of our choosing much sooner. Now we can't do anything about what was done in the past but we can fix what happens in the future.

I have wanted to fly since my very first flight (at the ripe old age of 5) on a United 737-200, and I have wanted to fly Internationally since my first International flight on a Continental 767 at the age of 18. Now, at the age of 33 that goal has not waivered, however if scope continues to be released what will be left of the once dominant International airlines? 400 - 500 pilots flying 74's, 77's and 78's for peanuts? We've got to take back this industry! How many of us have stuggled to pay the mortgage while management gets $10 million in bonuses to buy their yachts? We can take this industry back by keeping whats ours, which begins by keeping scope, fighting for better work rules, and getting the concessions back from management that they promised to give back once companies returned to profitability after 9/11 (which hasn't happened yet at ANY legacy carrier).

I fully support you the pilots of the new United in gaining back what is rightfully yours as well as the future pilots of the new United and returning the Legacy back to what it once was!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RJkybJZLUI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LDrVAONII

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDZAg...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrnwMDbbzt8&feature=colike

[QUOTE=IAHB756;1254079
You guys are getting our 737-900ER deliveries next year as 757's are parked

[/QUOTE]

We are? Oh I know what "they" say, but why believe ANYTHING they say. I have no doubt the 900s will replace our 757s. As to who will be flying them? We'll have to wait and see.

Sled

First Time post here.... Having been on the sidelines for the last 4 years (furloughed) the most frustrating argument I have read (on several thread topics) has been when someone alludes to UAL's parking of the 737 fleet (20% of the fleet) and subsequent furloughs as having nothing to do with this merger.

I started at Continental Express in 1998 and commuted for 9 years on a lot of CAL jump seats. To say that the culture at UAL and CAL are different is a huge understatement.

The planning for and execution of the Merger that was announced in May 2010 had begun years prior. The earliest UAL/CAL merger discussions on record (WSJ) were in late 2006. The discussions did not get serious until the DAL/NWA discussions began. Consider the following sequence of events with regards to UAL furloughs:

1/15/2008 - Delta in simultaneous merger talks with NWA/UAL (USA Today)
2/15/2008 - UAL/CAL in advanced merger talks (NY Times)
4/14/2008 - DAL/NWA merger announced
4/26/2008 - CAL decides not to merger w/UAL
6/4/2008 - UAL to park 94 737's (Roughly 20% of the fleet)
6/19/2008 - CAL to join Star Alliance (Multiple sources)
8/19/2008 - CAL to furlough 137 pilots
7/16/2009 - Larry Kellner to step down (USA Today)
10/27/2009 - Last UAL 737 flight
5/3/2010 - UAL/CAL merger announced

Maybe I am naive, but I do not believe these events happened independent of each other. I feel there was a strategic plan in place long before May 2010.

So which is it? Divide and conquer or all of us on the same page? We see it exactly the same as you. It sucks on both sides. Yet you continue to bash CAL pilots because of the growth here but when growth is aimed at UAL, you bemoan us for taking away your precious 757. So which way do we go here? We want to be on the same page with you but you seem to be shooting yourself in the foot. What exactly do you want the CAL pilots to do that we are not already doing? Walk off the job? Refuse the aircraft orders and the CA seats? Acquiesce to a staple job? Sacrifice our first born?

We get it. You're not happy with the 737. Get over it. UAL is getting how many of them now? You seem to want to cut off your nose to spite your face just so you don't have to fly it. If we had not merged, what would UAL have replaced the 757 with? More 757's? You parked your 737's and got a whole fleet of RJ's. That's better? Would you turn your nose up at an E170/E190 CA seat on UAL property, with UAL pay and benefits?

Yes, the inequality we have here is growing by the day but this was thought out long before we got to this day. I agree, it sucks. And I'll also recognize UAL is getting the short end of the stick, for now. Again, what can the CAL pilots do about it? We picket, you picket. You vote, we vote. We protest, you protest. You suffer, we suffer. You strike and the CAL pilots will strike right along with you, side by side. What else do you want us to do?

I agree with you that parking the UAL 737 fleet and furloughing 1437 UAL pilots helped facilitate the merger. No one on the L-CAL list will see it that way. By the way, here are some of the 737 vacancies for L-CAL:

DEN 737 CA - 34 78 78 44 Vacancies
DEN 737 FO - 39 77 77 38 Vacancies
LAX 737 CA 3 72 82 82 10 Vacancies
LAX 737 FO - 72 83 83 11 Vacancies
ORD 737 CA - 34 73 73 39 Vacancies
ORD 737 FO - 36 72 72 36 Vacancies

I think management would prefer us to be the next USAir, bump/furlough pilots from the L-UAL list, and send them to the L-CAL list if they still want a job. The longer they can operate this way, more money in their pockets.

You conveniently left out the two failed merger attempts with USair, the second of which died on May 30, 2008 - a mere 5 days before Tilton announced parking the 6 747's and 94 737's.